Crazy Chess Beliefs

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Avatar of Meadmaker

Of course for many centuries it has been considered unnecessary to actually execute the coup de grace, so checkmate -  inevitable capture of the king on the next move - is sufficient. What would supposedly happen after that is of course irrelevant.


 Trivia time:  The fact that the goal was to kill the king, not just place him in mortal danger, can be known from linguistics.  The word "checkmate" comes from the Persian "Shah mat" which means, "The king is dead."

The object of the game is to kill the king, and the first one to do so, wins.  Somewhere along the line, someone decided that it would be bad form to "actually" kill the king, so they changed the rules to be that you had to put the king in a position from which there was no escape.

Avatar of Gomer_Pyle
Insane_Chess wrote:
...Btw, all this rule discussion is reatarded as hell. It's like arguing against en passant because you don't like how it works. That's not a logical move! How can the pawn take what's not there? Explain THAT logically...

Once upon a time pawns could only move one square, even on their first move. Players realized they were wasting lots of time at the beginning of the game getting their pawns to the center of the board. They decided to let pawns move two squares on their first move and only on their first move to speed up the opening. The en passant rule was then needed so that pawns couldn't jump past enemy pawns without fear of capture. That's why taking a pawn by en passant is like taking the pawn as if it only moved one square on it's first move.

Avatar of Loomis

When I was about 12 I had a friend who owned a chess set with the rules for how each piece moved written on the pieces. The rule for the knight was written: The knight moves one square horizontally or vertically followed by one square diagonally.

This led to his confusion on whether the knight could move, for example, from e1 to f1 by moving one square vertically e1-e2 followed by one square diagonally, e2-f1. I could never convince him otherwise, though he would agree to play a game by "my" rules (as if I'd made them up).

Avatar of SimonSeirup

Haha, funny peaple you play against.

Avatar of shiro_europa
Avatar of blake78613

In the case of the Krochnoi - Karpov game, I think Krochnoi knew the rule well; but he wanted to make sure the arbiter knew the rule before he touched his king.

When I first started playing chess, a lot of players would say "guarde" or "guarde la reine" when they threatened the queen.  In most cases, they did it as a matter of courtesy; but there were a few who though it was a rule.  In the circles I first played in, it was a definate breach a etiquette not to the issue the warning.  I don't think any one thought moving the queen was mandatory; but if you didn't issue the warning, you would not be allowed to capture the queen on your next move.

I once played someone who knew and enforced the rule that you had to move the king first when castling, but didn't otherwise follow the rule that if you touched a piece you had to move it.

Avatar of bfound

I think it all comes down to the fact that most people learn the rules of chess from someone else, and not from a rule book. This happens with any long-standing game.

Avatar of Dragec

to notlesu and others:

There is no mentioning of pin in laws of the chess. "State of pin" is consequence of article 1.2(The nature and objectives of the game of chess) - exposing one’s own king to attack is not allowed.

So, the piece is pinned because moving it would be forbidden according to article 1.2.

But supporters of "power of pin" (so to say) would expose their own king to attack (thus violating article 1.2) just because their opponent wouldn't be able to move the pinned piece because it would then violate the article 1.2.

So, its easy to see that this logic is faulty, you can not have double standards here. Embarassed

 

And, the statement that the "pinned piece" is stripped of its power is nonsense, it is again faulty logic(hasty generalization), and generalization of article 1.2.  And for those who needs additional data, articles 3.1. and 3.9. reaffirms that. Any piece can be moved to a attacked square except a king. Cool

 

FIDE laws of chess:

http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=124&view=article

Avatar of Knightvanguard
blake78613 wrote:

In the case of the Krochnoi - Karpov game, I think Krochnoi knew the rule well; but he wanted to make sure the arbiter knew the rule before he touched his king.

When I first started playing chess, a lot of players would say "guarde" or "guarde la reine" when they threatened the queen.  In most cases, they did it as a matter of courtesy; but there were a few who though it was a rule.  In the circles I first played in, it was a definate breach a etiquette not to the issue the warning.  I don't think any one thought moving the queen was mandatory; but if you didn't issue the warning, you would not be allowed to capture the queen on your next move.

I once played someone who knew and enforced the rule that you had to move the king first when castling, but didn't otherwise follow the rule that if you touched a piece you had to move it.


When playing against a computer and you attempt to move the rook first when castling, it won't let you castle.

Avatar of Knightvanguard

Gomer_Pyle wrote:
Insane_Chess wrote:
...Btw, all this rule discussion is reatarded as hell. It's like arguing against en passant because you don't like how it works. That's not a logical move! How can the pawn take what's not there? Explain THAT logically...

Once upon a time pawns could only move one square, even on their first move. Players realized they were wasting lots of time at the beginning of the game getting their pawns to the center of the board. They decided to let pawns move two squares on their first move and only on their first move to speed up the opening. The en passant rule was then needed so that pawns couldn't jump past enemy pawns without fear of capture. That's why taking a pawn by en passant is like taking the pawn as if it only moved one square on it's first move.


The en passant rule is also needed just in case the pawn moved becomes a pasted pawn.

Avatar of Knightvanguard

I like this thread, because it has always amused me as to the many different rules one encounters when playing chess.  I have heard so many times, "MY dad told me so."  

Avatar of batgirl
bfound wrote:

I think it all comes down to the fact that most people learn the rules of chess from someone else, and not from a rule book. This happens with any long-standing game.


Probaby true. However, I've seen chess described as a universal language, i.e. a game strangers from entirely different cultures and languages could play unimpeded, but sometimes it's hard to play with your next-door neighbor.

Avatar of Knightvanguard

My neighbor, at the moment, is my best OTB player.  We are evenly matched. 

Avatar of Guolin
Gambitking wrote:
oginschile wrote:

I used to play casual chess games at work with a guy who thought it was cowardly to castle. He didn't think it was cheating, but he made all sorts of unpleasant noises whenever I castled to show his displeasure.


Did you ever play the Muzio Gambit against him? Castling is 'cowardly', eh? Castling is a brave knight sacrifice! (...Also, it's quite possibly the best opening in chess, I might add!)

 

The Gambit King


 Too bad the amateurs I play against don't play 3...g5 because they don't realize it is protected by a Queen, and the non-amateurs I play against defend against King's Gambit differently to avoid the Muzio.

Avatar of Elroch

My database suggests white has been having a really tough time in the Muzio recently. Perhaps some good lines have been found for black to hang on to the material and survive.

Avatar of Guolin

Muzio has never been reliable, so it depends on the strategic level of White. It's still a fun Gambit though. ^__^

Avatar of bfound
batgirl wrote:
bfound wrote:

I think it all comes down to the fact that most people learn the rules of chess from someone else, and not from a rule book. This happens with any long-standing game.


Probaby true. However, I've seen chess described as a universal language, i.e. a game strangers from entirely different cultures and languages could play unimpeded, but sometimes it's hard to play with your next-door neighbor.


It's like the rules for Monopoly. I don't know why they bother including them in the box since no one reads them, and plays according to their "understanding" of the rules.

Avatar of B_Cuzican

I've played with people who thought that you couldn't castle if any one of the three outside pawns (on the castling side) had been moved! Also just a note, in my experience the touch rule is almost universally ignored in non-tournament play. So I usually inform opponents of the rule, merely as a trivia fact, but to keep it fun, I never enforce it.

Avatar of chessroboto
bfound wrote:

It's like the rules for Monopoly. I don't know why they bother including them in the box since no one reads them, and plays according to their "understanding" of the rules.


Speaking of Monopoly, I know adults who still do not understand the proper use of the mortgage value for every piece of property and utility that were surrendered to the bank.

I welcome the credit card system upgrade in the game. Money counting has become more accurate, and being in deficit is easy to check irregardless of the number of players left in the game. But like the classic, the electronic version still needs an honest "banker" who can count and keep track of all the mortgages that the bank should collect.

Avatar of SchofieldKid

When i first started going to the local club ( i am only 14) everyone was extremely nice but quickly taught me most of the stuff you just listed. I already knew all of the moving rules (i.g En passant) but had trouble  with moving a piece with one hand and touching the clock with the other. Now when people come along who don't know the rules i always feele annoyed and i am a relatively shy person so rarely do i complain about it during the game and address the issue after