Encyclopedia of Chess Combinations

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SilentKnighte5

Chess positions are not copyrightable.  So if it's just a dump of positions without any text, it's legal.  That doesn't preclude cc from not allowing those type of posts on general principle though.

Ziryab
vittyvirus wrote:
Ziryab wrote:
vittyvirus wrote:
MuhammadAreez10 wrote:

Why did vittyvirus delete his comments? What was hidden there?!

The whole Encyclopedia of Chess Middlegames as an epd file. Well, it isn't copyrighted, but still Chess.com deleted my comment.

Encyclopedia of Chess Middlegames (1980) is copyright Sahovski Informator.

I don't think so. The version I posted had 879 problems.

So, the title is stolen as well as the content. It is well that chess.com deleted the link. Lawyers cost money.

nartreb

>Chess positions are not copyrightable. 

Got a citation for that?   Even if true, collections of noncopyrightable stuff can be copyrightable, if some creativity is used in their selection and arrangement.  Any commentary is definitely copyrightable. So is the visual layout (choice of font size, margins, etc;), so a copy in a look-alike format like PDF is going to be problematic even if it just lists the positions in a text format.  Based on descriptions of folks trying to sell their copy, this particular book contains not just positions but diagrams, solutions, and prose discussion of "16 middlegame themes" (in 8 languages!)  So this is an easy case.

vittyvirus
nartreb wrote:

>Chess positions are not copyrightable. 

Got a citation for that?   Even if true, collections of noncopyrightable stuff can be copyrightable, if some creativity is used in their selection and arrangement.  Any commentary is definitely copyrightable. So is the visual layout (choice of font size, margins, etc;), so a copy in a look-alike format like PDF is going to be problematic even if it just lists the positions in a text format.  Based on descriptions of folks trying to sell their copy, this particular book contains not just positions but diagrams, solutions, and prose discussion of "16 middlegame themes" (in 8 languages!)  So this is an easy case.

See: http://web.archive.org/web/20071213175935/http://www.seanet.com/~brucemo/gerbil/epd2wb.txt

Also, Bruce Moreland wrote:

I included one EPD file (ECM, "Encyclopedia of Chess Middlegames"), along with
Gerbil.  This file is easy to find on the net.  I don't think I am violating
anyone's copyright by distributing it.  It's a fairly tough tactical suite.
nartreb

That's evidence that Chess Informant wasn't being aggressive in policing copying of this particular book. They could still sue at any time, unless theyve made a binding promise not to do so.*

It's nowhere near being a legal authority for the idea that "chess positions aren't copyrightable".

*That's oversimplified but close enough.

Ziryab

Perhaps it is the case that the proprietary analysis and organization is not present in a file that looks thus:

r4rk1/1b3Npp/p7/1p3Q2/3P4/1B2q3/P5PP/3n1R1K b - - bm Bxg2+; id "ECM.027";
r1b2rk1/2q2ppp/2pbp3/p7/4Nn2/3B4/PPPBQ1PP/R4R1K w - - bm Rxf4; id "ECM.028";
3r2k1/1q1P1ppp/r2R2n1/p4Q2/1ppB2R1/6P1/PP3PP1/6K1 w - - bm Rgxg6; id "ECM.029";
r2q1rk1/p3b1pp/2p5/1pn5/1n1Bp1b1/1P6/PQ1PPP2/2RNKBNR b K - bm Bxe2; id "ECM.030";

It is also worth noting that the current edition of Encyclopedia of Chess Combinations contains 3001 positions with full solutions, while the epd file contains 879 positions and only the key move.
 
Some years ago, Guenther Ossimitz put online databases containing all the games in many chess books. One publisher, Everyman, as I recall, asked that none of their books be included. None were. I found that these databases were particularly useful when used in conjunction with the printed text. In the absense of the printed book, they are less useful. A couple of the databases needed unlocking with a code that required access to the printed book.
 
When Ossimitz died, the site came down.
nartreb

OK, I never saw the posted file.  It sounds like it's rather different than the actual book.

If it's just a list of positions with no commentary other than the "best move" notation, you are starting to have a case.  Also if you can prove that the book's publisher knew this stuff was online and was given a chance to object, that helps.  Finally, assuming chess positions are copyrightable, they would only by copyrightable by their creators.  The authors of the book might have taken the positions from famous games (not composed or solved the positions themselves), in which case they are not the authors of the positions (including the best moves), only of the selection and ordering of the positions (and it sounds like the EPM file altered the selection somewhat).   A court could find the copyrightable parts of the EPM file are so insubstantial compared to the non-copyrightable parts that they won't award any damages.  Not a risk I would leap to take if I were in chess.com's shoes, of course.  

SilentKnighte5
Ziryab wrote:

 When Ossimitz died, the site came down.

Still available on archive.org BTW.  I loved his site.

Ziryab
nartreb wrote:

OK, I never saw the posted file.  It sounds like it's rather different than the actual book.

If it's just a list of positions with no commentary other than the "best move" notation, you are starting to have a case.  Also if you can prove that the book's publisher knew this stuff was online and was given a chance to object, that helps.  Finally, assuming chess positions are copyrightable, they would only by copyrightable by their creators.  The authors of the book might have taken the positions from famous games (not composed or solved the positions themselves), in which case they are not the authors of the positions (including the best moves), only of the selection and ordering of the positions (and it sounds like the EPM file altered the selection somewhat).   A court could find the copyrightable parts of the EPM file are so insubstantial compared to the non-copyrightable parts that they won't award any damages.  Not a risk I would leap to take if I were in chess.com's shoes, of course.  

The positions in Encyclopedia of Chess Combinations come from actual games. The fourth diagram in http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2015/02/morphys-immortal.html is the first in Anthology of Chess Combinations, 3rd ed. In Encyclopedia of Chess Combinations, 5th ed., it is number 191. I'm reasonably certain that it is in the other editions as well. The solution given in Sahovski Informator's books is not wholly what Morphy played, but an improvement first pointed out by Zukertort.

Some of the positions in the Encyclopedia can be found in many books. But, to present the positions in the same sequence strikes me as a possible copyright violation. To present the full solutions and classification scheme is beyond doubt criminal.

There are gray areas in copywright law. National boundaries make enforcement of laws difficult as well. 

In any case, any ambitious chess player serious about becoming better would be well advised to consider purchasing a printed copy of the Encyclopedia of Chess Combinations. No online databases, even those lifted from earlier editions, offer quite the same benefits. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/ChessInformant/posts/837355469657695

Ziryab

The Encyclopedia of Chess Combinations download version is now available!

http://www.chessinformant.org/encyclopedia-of-chess-combinations-5-download-version/

t-ram87

I agree its a good book, but how to solve it ?

Seriously i solved 9 combinations in 10 hours and only 2 were perfectly correct, and 5 were completely wrong. How can i solve them ?

ESP-918

Should I get this book 5th edition or an original 1980 first edition  (encyclopedia of chess middlegames combinations )?

Ziryab
ESP-918 wrote:

Should I get this book 5th edition or an original 1980 first edition  (encyclopedia of chess middlegames combinations )?

 

The newer editions are larger, and also have corrected a small number of errors. According to an ad in the latest Informant, the 6th edition is due out this fall.

ESP-918
Ziryab wrote:
ESP-918 wrote:

Should I get this book 5th edition or an original 1980 first edition  (encyclopedia of chess middlegames combinations )?

 

The newer editions are larger, and also have corrected a small number of errors. According to an ad in the latest Informant, the 6th edition is due out this fall.

When do you think 6th edition will come out roughly?  Should I wait till 6th edition or just get 5th edition? 

IJELLYBEANS

What I would appreciate is if the actual chess positions themselves were oriented in different languages, so my puny brain wouldn't have to... ah, whatever.

ESP-918

Just bought a book today , very happy, check out my post:

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-equipment/finally-just-bought-a-new-original-book-today-what-do-you-guys-think

naturallwater

How should we study this book ? Shall we handle each subject as basic-intermediate-advanced , or shall we complete first basic part of each subject , and then intermediates then advanced parts ? any recommendations ? 

AfricanAlekhine

this book is hard, sections of basic are still hard and depressed, but will keep fighting

PDX_Axe

@Chicken_Monsster  EoCC is available from House of Staunton in either book, cd, or download formats.  The book is $59, CD $39, and download $19.  And yes, the puzzles are not easy.  I find it makes you think very hard about most of the positions.  Set the positions up on a board if you need to, and work through them carefully, taking notes in a notebook along the way.  Just be aware this is not a book for beginners.

SerenaWiliam
Ziryab wrote:

I received my copy of the Encyclopedia of Chess Combinations, 5th ed. (2014) last week. Here's a position from the book: http://chessskill.blogspot.com/2015/03/sacrifice-everything.html.

Books on tactics:

just replying to this almost 10 year post to say cameras almost 10 years ago werent so bad