FM Borislav Ivanov Disqualified

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johntromp
schlechter55 wrote:

For me, the most plausible explanation is the following:

He had (has) an accomplice who follows the game and puts the moves into his computer. The easiest way to do this is either to have an accomplice among the staff of the tournament (somone who has access go all games which will then be shown on screen(s) for the audience), or to hack into such computersystem, or a hidden camera in the tournament hall that shows the moves, and that receives his accomplice.

Further, Ivanov needs to have a very small ear device (loudspeaker), not visible for the people in the hall, so that he will receive the answers of Houdini by his accomplice.

All doable with non-expensive equipment, except perhaps the ear-device.

Anyway, I like the idea of some secret service which wants to test new equipment, and perhaps also the reaction of the chess community.

Did all events in which he played superhuman have cameras over all boards? I agree that for relaying moves back to him, an ear-piece is at least as plausible as foot-feedback, but I also think that for relaying moves to the computer, shoe sensors such as these:

http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/diet-fitness/information/nike-ipod1.htm

which he could have retro-fitted in his own shoes, are more plausible than cameras.

JamieKowalski
chessking775 wrote:

I'm just curious, If Borislav Ivanov claimed that he beat Houdini and Rybka 10-0 can't FIDE just make him play them again and he can do it again?

Which brings up another point. If he's playing Houdini's top choice moves, his record against Houdini should be closer to 0-0-10.

waffllemaster
chessking775 wrote:

I'm just curious, If Borislav Ivanov claimed that he beat Houdini and Rybka 10-0 can't FIDE just make him play them again and he can do it again?

No.  But what would be interesting would be a post game interview like top players give where they explain some of the variations and evaluations they considered during the game.

gambit-man
chessking775 wrote:

I'm just curious, If Borislav Ivanov claimed that he beat Houdini and Rybka 10-0 can't FIDE just make him play them again and he can do it again?

I don't see how he could beat Houdini 10-0, when he plays the SAME MOVES!

TheGrobe

In the world of relative plausibility, it seems that there is a lot of technology available that can readily explain how he may have had moves relayed to him from Houdini in some way shape or form.

The alternate explanation, that he's the only human capable of identifying and selecting top engine move choices almost without fail is nothing short of absurd.

Engines have outclassed human players for quite some time now.  The implication is that Mr. Ivanov is in fact the strongest human player by a significant margin.

One explanation is much more plausible than the other.

numismaticsandchess

I don't get it. If Ivanov trains at home and has a good memory, how could anyone call that cheating? On the other hand, where is the evidence that he cheated? Something is not right...

SocialPanda
BrilliantONe wrote:

I don't get it. If Ivanov trains at home and has a good memory, how could anyone call that cheating? On the other hand, where is the evidence that he cheated? Something is not right...

But Mr. Zilbermintz, he can´t play by memory even on the endgames.

You are a strong blitz player, I´m sure you know that people can´t play at engine level at short time controls (or at any time control, but human play is much worse in blitz as it´s obvious).

johntromp
BrilliantONe wrote:

I don't get it. If Ivanov trains at home and has a good memory, how could anyone call that cheating? On the other hand, where is the evidence that he cheated? Something is not right...

I don't get it. If BrilliantONe jumps into this thread at home and rehashes old fantasies, how could anyone call that trolling? On the other hand, where is the evidence that he followed this thread? Something is not right...

schlechter55

brilliantone:

This is exactly the point. If you look at a court case, and the evidence that puts somebody behind bars, it is not more convincing than the cheat detecting program's verdict: 'He cheated, because the probability to copy moves of Houdini in such short time and with such frequency is much lower than 0.00001 '.

How often an eye-witness 'saw' the murderer (and in fact it was somebody else she/he saw), how often the blood sample at the crime scene is the decisive argument for the conviction ?

In fact , some secret service could have planted the device there and erase all traces of their ill-doing.

OK, the probability of such 'perfect murder' (planting evidence against someone who is inncocent) can often be shrunk, with a fair and cautious investigation. But the probability that the accused was in fact innocent will still be very often higher than 0.01.

For those who don't know probability theory: the probability of an event is a number between 0 and 1; 0= probability of the impossible event; 1= probability of the sure event.

gambit-man
BrilliantONe wrote:

I don't get it. If Ivanov trains at home and has a good memory, how could anyone call that cheating? On the other hand, where is the evidence that he cheated? Something is not right...

The evidence is all there, you need to go back and read the forum topic...

netzach

Never been that enthused about 'centaur-chess' as FX will readily testify. Before he comes at me defensively we should perhaps consider that Ivanov has found a method of taking this to a new level?

schlechter55

thus bowing before the people who are sceptical about the Mathematical truth: if it is too complicated for them they dont buy it.

waffllemaster
swellz wrote:

"The tricky thing with the Ivanov case is there has been some circumstances where it's almost at this stage hard to imagine how he could possibly cheat," Mr Press said.

This man needs a better imagination.  Didn't find anything after searching him?  That's true.  And in that game his play returned to sh*t.

TheGrobe

Well sure, you'd be rattled and of your superhuman game too if you were subject to such treatment.

waffllemaster

Need a James Randy type deal.  Offer 1 million USD if Ivanov can play at a certain level under agreed upon conditions.

TheGrobe

Why reward the dishonesty required to qualify for such a deal?

TheGrobe

Don't know if this has already been posted, but here is some precedent for the types of technologies that can be brought to bear if someone is determined enough to cheat:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/429609/20130130/loris-cereda-chess-corruption-cheating-italy.htm

waffllemaster

Public embarrassment doesn't seem like much of a reward Wink

I don't believe Ivanov is a fool though.  He'd never agree in the first place.

jason17

It seems like the majority of people who buy into Ivanov not cheating are the types that post in the forums something like "how many years till I reach grandmaster?" or "if I train 6 hours a day, could I be a grandmaster?". Ivanov's "success" plays on people's hopes and desires of achieving greatness in a short span of time with not too much effort. Greatness never happens like that.

And come on, no one ocsillates between a 1900 tournament performance rating and a 2600+ tournament performance rating. Even a tempermental player like Ivanchuck doesn't get remotely close to a gap like that.

LoekBergman

What I read is that Shaun Press is selected as a member of a committee to find out how people can cheat using technology. I think that he is selected to be part of that committee, because he is convinced that someone can only become accused of cheating when there is some device found on him. That attitude precedes his selection.

Members of that committee will of course not say that statistical evidence will suffice. It is like saying that their own committee is not needed anymore. They should belief in their own importance. I think that FIDE should bet on both horses and install two committees, for each method of investigation one.

This is a nice article, thanks for posting.

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