Bishops and Knights are equal

Sort:
browni3141
TheUltimateChampion wrote:
RoseQueen1985 wrote:
^ it can be done if there's one enemy pawn left on the board!

And that too under a particular pattern or particular squares.


 Even then it is exetremely difficult, and can be affected by that nasty 50 move rule

Cystem_Phailure
TheUltimateChampion wrote: But I did say " Its relative" and I didn't refer to a particular post. 

And now you're rewriting things.  You started out making stupid statements about Bishops "always" being better and people with two Bishops "never" allowing closed positions.  Now you're making more reasonable statements using words like "relative".  See?  You've learned something.  Now, be sure to thank everyone for setting you straight.

Cystem_Phailure
TheUltimateChampion wrote:
 Bishops are better most of the time . 

Once again, your very first dribble in this thread (post #13) started out by saying "bishops are always slightly better than knights" and you labeled another poster's statements that either piece could be more valuable in different situations as "mindless stupid things".  You've since posted more reasonable comments indicating you might actually have an understanding that the relative values of the pieces depends strongly on the position.

I never claimed the comments by Kaufman and Watson were stupid.  I said your initial comment was stupid, and I was right.

mattattack99
TheUltimateChampion wrote:
Cystem_Phailure wrote:
TheUltimateChampion wrote:
 Bishops are better most of the time . 

Once again, your very first dribble in this thread (post #13) started out by saying "bishops are always slightly better than knights" and you labeled another poster's statements that either piece could be more valuable in different situations as "mindless stupid things".  You've since posted more reasonable comments indicating you might actually have an understanding that the relative values of the pieces depends strongly on the position.

I never claimed the comments by Kaufman and Watson were stupid.  I said your initial comment was stupid, and I was right.


No you were wrong in claiming u r right. What I said is Fact and it stands. Bishops are always slightly better.Simple.


That's ridiculous

Cystem_Phailure

You need to look up the definition of always.  Simple as that.

leveen

Chess is a team work you need to see whole picture -position, tactics - and then decide which one is valuable.

AndyClifton

Uh-oh, looks like Cystem's causing trouble again (now he's arguing with Morphy!).

goldendog

Dictionaries!? We don't need no stinking dictionaries!

AndyClifton

Spoken like a true champ:

Cystem_Phailure
TheUltimateChampion wrote:

I know. You try to understand .I wrote "Always slightly better" Not only "Always". Simple as that.


And that was exactly your error.  Sometimes Knights are better.  Get it?  Sometimes. 

It's clear from some of your phrases such as "Thats Obvious as u dont understand the sentence in average or generally." that you are not especially crafty with the English language.  It's also clear that you don't understand the difference between saying "always slightly better" as you incorrectly stated in post #13 and your later correct phrases that you seem to think are synonymous, such as "most of the time" and "depends on position" as in post #62.

AndyClifton

On the plus side though, he doubtless has the makings of a real fine lawyer someday...

Narz

Who cares about stats of GrandMaster games.  Are you guys GM's or playing GMs?

The smart money is on mastering knights to the highest degree & they pwning weak players who are overeager to "accquire the two bishops".  IM Mark Diesen has a good couple of videos on chess.fm on the power of knights even in open positions when they are well-placed.

algorab

From "Rethinking the Chess pieces" by Soltis . In this table is reported the average mobility of the pieces obtained from a sample of matches (pawn =1) x number of moves.

Unfortunately the dynamic value of the king is not reported Frown

MOBILITY OF THE PIECES    
    MOVES  
  .6-25 .26-45 .46-65
Queen 6.6 7 9.6
Rook 2.6 4.3 5.1
Bishop 3.1 3.5 3.8
Knight 3.3 3.3 3.3

Notes

Ubik42

Sometimes knights are better than bishops.

Average doesnt help you much. It's Useless for calculating. You have to analyze.

And since there is talk of dictionaries in this thread, I looked a term up:

Good Bishop (n) : The bishop you still have left on the board!

 

I would also like to take this time to deomonstrate the inadequacies of the bishop.

einherjar145

Instead of saying Bishops are always slightly better, you could have said Bishops are slightly better than knights in certain circumstances.

Ubik42
einherjar145 wrote:

Instead of saying Bishops are always slightly better, you could have said Bishops are slightly better than knights in certain circumstances.


 Yes. Of course, you can also say the exact same thing about pawns and queens.

Ubik42
TheUltimateChampion wrote:
algorab wrote:

From "Rethinking the Chess pieces" by Soltis . In this table is reported the average mobility of the pieces obtained from a sample of matches (pawn =1) x number of moves.

Unfortunately the dynamic value of the king is not reported

MOBILITY OF THE PIECES         MOVES     .6-25 .26-45 .46-65 Queen 6.6 7 9.6 Rook 2.6 4.3 5.1 Bishop 3.1 3.5 3.8 Knight 3.3 3.3 3.3

Notes


Well King is not a piece its The king. In endgames it is assumed by many to be of 4 pawns.


 You could do another thread with the King as the subject.

Although the King is not a subject.

algorab
TheUltimateChampion wrote:
algorab wrote:

From "Rethinking the Chess pieces" by Soltis . In this table is reported the average mobility of the pieces obtained from a sample of matches (pawn =1) x number of moves.

Unfortunately the dynamic value of the king is not reported

MOBILITY OF THE PIECES         MOVES     .6-25 .26-45 .46-65 Queen 6.6 7 9.6 Rook 2.6 4.3 5.1 Bishop 3.1 3.5 3.8 Knight 3.3 3.3 3.3

Notes


Well King is not a piece its The king. In endgames it is assumed by many to be of 4 pawns.


considering that in the opening and middlegame the King has to hide maybe we can modify the table like this.

MOBILITY OF THE PIECES    
    MOVES  
  .6-25 .26-45 .46-65
Queen 6.6 7 9.6
Rook 2.6 4.3 5.1
Bishop 3.1 3.5 3.8
Knight 3.3 3.3 3.3

King        -              -                 4 

mattattack99

Which is different from your original statement: "Bishops are always slightly better than knights."

bigpoison

It's not the same.  Always means always, it doesn't matter what subjective clause you follow it with.

One should always avoid absolutes.