Hikaru Nakamura can become a world chess champion

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Nic_Olas

I think there was some hope that Naka could play a match for the WCC until Carlsen beat him convincingly in a fischerrandom match. 

Nickalispicalis71
hikarunaku wrote:

I feel that Hikaru has the talent to become a world chess champion if he plays less blitz and bullet and concentrate more on classical time games.What are your opinions on this.

That assumes that classical chess is the future. It isn't. At least not under the current format. Do we want to another WC like the last one? The draw death is only going to get worse. I think Carlsen is on record as saying he will not defend his title unless changes are made. 

The format should have changed to chess960, and that change should have happened about 5 years ago. The reason it hasn't is because of all the financial interest tied in with the old game. 

 

Lord_Hammer

Hikaru is too much of an online player. He has only made the Candidates Tournament once

hikarunaku
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

embarrassing!

Not even in the slightest ,given that only few people in history have done it.

llamonade
hikarunaku wrote:
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

embarrassing!

Not even in the slightest ,given that only few people in history have done it.

That was his point tongue.png

He was being sarcastic.

llamonade
IMRonilm1204 wrote:

Hikaru is too much of an online player. 

I don't think that's fair. I don't think his online chess hurt him. I just think he never had what it takes.

Which, as @hikarunaku points out, is a fairly ironic phrase "doesn't have what it takes" when we're talking about a perennial top 10 player. He's obviously a super-mega talent, but just as obviously, Carlsen is in a class even beyond.

fgsjd

He was number 2 in the world in classical back in 2015 with a rating of 2816. But that just doesn't cut it any more now to be competitive with magnus you have to be at least 2830ish , and that rating was 4 years ago I  think that he would have a very hard time getting there again. But I definitely think that blitz or rapid is a possibility.

fgsjd

Unless I'm mistaken Hikaru and MVL are the only people in magnuses  (sorry about the punctuation) league when it comes to speed chess. Grischuk used to be but not any more.

llamonade
fgsjd wrote:

He was number 2 in the world in classical back in 2015 with a rating of 2816. But that just doesn't cut it any more now to be competitive with magnus you have to be at least 2830ish , and that rating was 4 years ago I  think that he would have a very hard time getting there again. But I definitely think that blitz or rapid is a possibility.

That was his peak. He was over 2800 for what, 2 tournaments? A few months?

Carlsen has been over 2800 non-stop since just before his 19th birthday. In other words Naka's peak = teenager Carlsen.

They're different classes of player.

 

fgsjd wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken Hikaru and MVL are the only people in magnuses  (sorry about the punctuation) league when it comes to speed chess. Grischuk used to be but not any more.

Sure, when it comes to speed chess Naka is probably #2 when there is increment, and maybe better than Carlsen when there is no increment.

MVL is good, but IIRC in his last couple of speed tournaments he didn't preform as well as his reputation.

Debistro

Naka is a HUGE talent. Anyone who can play Chess960 well, and also play blitz and bullet so well, is hugely talented. But Naka probably failed to focus during his prime years, and maybe he kept on relying on his 2100 NM friend when at the top level, you need not one, but several strong GMs to help your opening prep (plus strong computers). You cannot simply rely on your talent alone. This is not 1970 Fischer era.

Even his stint with Garry Kasparov did not work out (perhaps a clash of egos), although I feel Naka could indeed have learned a lot from Kasparov because both have similar styles of play and for the simple fact, that Kasparov has been there and done that. And Carlsen himself said no one has a better feel for chess dynamics than Kasparov.

Naka has what Caruana lacks, and vice versa. That is the problem.

hikarunaku
Debistro wrote:

Naka is a HUGE talent. Anyone who can play Chess960 well, and also play blitz and bullet so well, is hugely talented. But Naka probably failed to focus during his prime years, and maybe he kept on relying on his 2100 NM friend when at the top level, you need not one, but several strong GMs to help your opening prep (plus strong computers). You cannot simply rely on your talent alone. This is not 1970 Fischer era.

Even his stint with Garry Kasparov did not work out (perhaps a clash of egos), although I feel Naka could indeed have learned a lot from Kasparov because both have similar styles of play and for the simple fact, that Kasparov has been there and done that. And Carlsen himself said no one has a better feel for chess dynamics than Kasparov.

Naka has what Caruana lacks, and vice versa. That is the problem.

Completely agree with you. 

llamonade
Debistro wrote:

Naka is a HUGE talent. Anyone who can play Chess960 well, and also play blitz and bullet so well, is hugely talented. But Naka probably failed to focus during his prime years, and maybe he kept on relying on his 2100 NM friend when at the top level, you need not one, but several strong GMs to help your opening prep (plus strong computers). You cannot simply rely on your talent alone. This is not 1970 Fischer era.

Even his stint with Garry Kasparov did not work out (perhaps a clash of egos), although I feel Naka could indeed have learned a lot from Kasparov because both have similar styles of play and for the simple fact, that Kasparov has been there and done that. And Carlsen himself said no one has a better feel for chess dynamics than Kasparov.

Naka has what Caruana lacks, and vice versa. That is the problem.

I disagree with almost everything you said, plus you make a lot of assumptions. I don't want to break down everything I disagree with, so just off the top of my head...

Naka didn't focus during his prime years? WTH. Do you say this about everyone who isn't world champ? Isn't it a million times more likely that Naka just wasn't good enough?

Another simple error. You learn the most from people with opposite strengths. You say Naka could learn a lot from Kasparov due to their both enjoying dynamics, but you have it backwards.

Also you can't compare Naka and Caruana as if they're the same level of player. They aren't.

hikarunaku

Naka is the biggest raw talent in chess for current top players . But he does not focus all his energy on classical chess. 

 

Debistro
llamonade wrote:
Debistro wrote:

Naka is a HUGE talent. Anyone who can play Chess960 well, and also play blitz and bullet so well, is hugely talented. But Naka probably failed to focus during his prime years, and maybe he kept on relying on his 2100 NM friend when at the top level, you need not one, but several strong GMs to help your opening prep (plus strong computers). You cannot simply rely on your talent alone. This is not 1970 Fischer era.

Even his stint with Garry Kasparov did not work out (perhaps a clash of egos), although I feel Naka could indeed have learned a lot from Kasparov because both have similar styles of play and for the simple fact, that Kasparov has been there and done that. And Carlsen himself said no one has a better feel for chess dynamics than Kasparov.

Naka has what Caruana lacks, and vice versa. That is the problem.

I disagree with almost everything you said, plus you make a lot of assumptions. I don't want to break down everything I disagree with, so just off the top of my head...

Naka didn't focus during his prime years? WTH. Do you say this about everyone who isn't world champ? Isn't it a million times more likely that Naka just wasn't good enough?

Another simple error. You learn the most from people with opposite strengths. You say Naka could learn a lot from Kasparov due to their both enjoying dynamics, but you have it backwards.

Also you can't compare Naka and Caruana as if they're the same level of player. They aren't.

I guess you did not follow Naka's commentary during the WCC. He was spot on for his on-the-spot analysis, and if he had taken over Caruana's seat in game 8, he would have won in Caruana's place. Caruana spent nearly 1 hour calculating what Naka could immediately see, and yet still made two blunders that threw all his advantage away. And we know what happened in the Rapid tiebreaks held a short while later....

The same fearsome Carlsen did not look so menacing in the Rapid WCC ......only he was made to look that way by Caruana. Did he not lose the first two games to some low ranked players?

But Caruana is well known for his preparation and did you know Caruana has had seconds for a long time (and even a coach)? Naka is everything Caruana is not, and vice versa.

And when I say "focus" I mean the whole entire deal. Naka still did not have a solid team behind him when he was 2800 and top 5 (or top 3) in the world. When you are top 5, if you really want to get anywhere, you need a few seconds and very solid prep, something Caruana has always had for some time now. Even Giri has seconds and a coach if I am not mistaken (and he has yet to win anything all this while).

You are trying to push your "Carlsen is so super strong and several levels above anyone" rhetoric, that's why you disagree with me. It's fine. Lots of Carlsen fanboys around. Maybe Caruana should get Kasparov as a coach (if he is willing), and inject that dynamism into his game that he is lacking.

llamonade
Debistro wrote:
llamonade wrote:
Debistro wrote:

Naka is a HUGE talent. Anyone who can play Chess960 well, and also play blitz and bullet so well, is hugely talented. But Naka probably failed to focus during his prime years, and maybe he kept on relying on his 2100 NM friend when at the top level, you need not one, but several strong GMs to help your opening prep (plus strong computers). You cannot simply rely on your talent alone. This is not 1970 Fischer era.

Even his stint with Garry Kasparov did not work out (perhaps a clash of egos), although I feel Naka could indeed have learned a lot from Kasparov because both have similar styles of play and for the simple fact, that Kasparov has been there and done that. And Carlsen himself said no one has a better feel for chess dynamics than Kasparov.

Naka has what Caruana lacks, and vice versa. That is the problem.

I disagree with almost everything you said, plus you make a lot of assumptions. I don't want to break down everything I disagree with, so just off the top of my head...

Naka didn't focus during his prime years? WTH. Do you say this about everyone who isn't world champ? Isn't it a million times more likely that Naka just wasn't good enough?

Another simple error. You learn the most from people with opposite strengths. You say Naka could learn a lot from Kasparov due to their both enjoying dynamics, but you have it backwards.

Also you can't compare Naka and Caruana as if they're the same level of player. They aren't.

I guess you did not follow Naka's commentary during the WCC. He was spot on for his on-the-spot analysis, and if he had taken over Caruana's seat in game 8, he would have won in Caruana's place. Caruana spent nearly 1 hour calculating what Naka could immediately see, and yet still made two blunders that threw all his advantage away. And we know what happened in the Rapid tiebreaks held a short while later....

The same fearsome Carlsen did not look so menacing in the Rapid WCC ......only he was made to look that way by Caruana. Did he not lose the first two games to some low ranked players?

But Caruana is well known for his preparation and did you know Caruana has had seconds for a long time (and even a coach)? Naka is everything Caruana is not, and vice versa.

And when I say "focus" I mean the whole entire deal. Naka still did not have a solid team behind him when he was 2800 and top 5 (or top 3) in the world. When you are top 5, if you really want to get anywhere, you need a few seconds and very solid prep, something Caruana has always had for some time now. Even Giri has seconds and a coach if I am not mistaken (and he has yet to win anything all this while).

You are trying to push your "Carlsen is so super strong and several levels above anyone" rhetoric, that's why you disagree with me. It's fine. Lots of Carlsen fanboys around. Maybe Caruana should get Kasparov as a coach (if he is willing), and inject that dynamism into his game that he is lacking.

Kasparov said that any GM can find 90% of the moves played in the WCC match, it's only a few moves that make the difference.

Of course Naka is not "any GM." He is one of the strongest in the world. Not only that, but it's easy to analyze under zero pressure, and not playing game day after day. I'm sure Caruana saw all the same ideas, but when you're under pressure and lack of sleep you doubt yourself, you double and triple check, and sometimes due to fatigue you get confused.

You  make a good point about preparation and seconds. In that sense maybe Caruana is opposite to Naka.

As for Carlsen, I'm not a fanboy. Like Finegold would say "the truth hurts" and the truth is Naka is not in the same class as Carlsen. Naka is a 2700 player (ok, he accidentally broke 2800 for 1 tournament or something) and Carlsen has been over 2800 non-stop since age 18. Think about that for a second.

ChrisWainscott
The knock on Kris Littlejohn is both ridiculous in nature and indicative of a lack of understanding.

Littlejohn is as good as anyone when it comes to opening prep.

His ideas are original and inspired and quite literally world class.

To bash him shows that you’re too focused on rating.

If Kris could remember the stuff he preps he’d be a GM himself. He just can’t remember his prep at the board.
Debistro
ChrisWainscott wrote:
The knock on Kris Littlejohn is both ridiculous in nature and indicative of a lack of understanding.

Littlejohn is as good as anyone when it comes to opening prep.

His ideas are original and inspired and quite literally world class.

To bash him shows that you’re too focused on rating.

If Kris could remember the stuff he preps he’d be a GM himself. He just can’t remember his prep at the board.

Well, why stop there, why not say anyone with a powerful computer and Stockfish can also be as good as anyone when it comes to opening prep.

There is a reason why all the seconds I have seen, were GMs above 2600, and preferably over 2700 if the GM can afford them - with the exception of Naka and maybe any others that I don't know about. And maybe you should ask the GMs why they don't grab anyone below that rating level; obviously they would be much cheaper.

 

gingerninja2003

This speaks for itself:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?yearcomp=exactly&year=&playercomp=either&pid=10084&player=&pid2=52948&player2=&movescomp=exactly&moves=&opening=&eco=&result=

 

Debistro
llamonade wrote:
Debistro wrote:
llamonade wrote:
Debistro wrote:

Naka is a HUGE talent. Anyone who can play Chess960 well, and also play blitz and bullet so well, is hugely talented. But Naka probably failed to focus during his prime years, and maybe he kept on relying on his 2100 NM friend when at the top level, you need not one, but several strong GMs to help your opening prep (plus strong computers). You cannot simply rely on your talent alone. This is not 1970 Fischer era.

Even his stint with Garry Kasparov did not work out (perhaps a clash of egos), although I feel Naka could indeed have learned a lot from Kasparov because both have similar styles of play and for the simple fact, that Kasparov has been there and done that. And Carlsen himself said no one has a better feel for chess dynamics than Kasparov.

Naka has what Caruana lacks, and vice versa. That is the problem.

I disagree with almost everything you said, plus you make a lot of assumptions. I don't want to break down everything I disagree with, so just off the top of my head...

Naka didn't focus during his prime years? WTH. Do you say this about everyone who isn't world champ? Isn't it a million times more likely that Naka just wasn't good enough?

Another simple error. You learn the most from people with opposite strengths. You say Naka could learn a lot from Kasparov due to their both enjoying dynamics, but you have it backwards.

Also you can't compare Naka and Caruana as if they're the same level of player. They aren't.

I guess you did not follow Naka's commentary during the WCC. He was spot on for his on-the-spot analysis, and if he had taken over Caruana's seat in game 8, he would have won in Caruana's place. Caruana spent nearly 1 hour calculating what Naka could immediately see, and yet still made two blunders that threw all his advantage away. And we know what happened in the Rapid tiebreaks held a short while later....

The same fearsome Carlsen did not look so menacing in the Rapid WCC ......only he was made to look that way by Caruana. Did he not lose the first two games to some low ranked players?

But Caruana is well known for his preparation and did you know Caruana has had seconds for a long time (and even a coach)? Naka is everything Caruana is not, and vice versa.

And when I say "focus" I mean the whole entire deal. Naka still did not have a solid team behind him when he was 2800 and top 5 (or top 3) in the world. When you are top 5, if you really want to get anywhere, you need a few seconds and very solid prep, something Caruana has always had for some time now. Even Giri has seconds and a coach if I am not mistaken (and he has yet to win anything all this while).

You are trying to push your "Carlsen is so super strong and several levels above anyone" rhetoric, that's why you disagree with me. It's fine. Lots of Carlsen fanboys around. Maybe Caruana should get Kasparov as a coach (if he is willing), and inject that dynamism into his game that he is lacking.

Kasparov said that any GM can find 90% of the moves played in the WCC match, it's only a few moves that make the difference.

Of course Naka is not "any GM." He is one of the strongest in the world. Not only that, but it's easy to analyze under zero pressure, and not playing game day after day. I'm sure Caruana saw all the same ideas, but when you're under pressure and lack of sleep you doubt yourself, you double and triple check, and sometimes due to fatigue you get confused.

You  make a good point about preparation and seconds. In that sense maybe Caruana is opposite to Naka.

As for Carlsen, I'm not a fanboy. Like Finegold would say "the truth hurts" and the truth is Naka is not in the same class as Carlsen. Naka is a 2700 player (ok, he accidentally broke 2800 for 1 tournament or something) and Carlsen has been over 2800 non-stop since age 18. Think about that for a second.

The thread is not about comparing Naka to Carlsen, but whether Naka can be a world champion. And I've already given my opinion that with the enormous talent he has, yes he could be one. More so than many other 2700s. 

But he may be past his prime for that. And whether he really wants to, is another matter.

He can of course, still prove us all wrong, but you cannot fight time. It's generally considered that nowadays, 30+ is past prime age. MVL has said he is worried that time is running out for him.

ChrisWainscott
No, Debistro, it’s not about anyone with stockfish and a computer.

It’s about someone who has a high level of understanding (Kris does) and the ability to apply that understanding to what they’re looking at with the engine (Kris can.)

Hikaru has been #2 in the world. Most of the others with the teams of GM’s you speak of have not done the same.

Also, I find it hilarious that you’re assuming Kris works cheaper than GM’s.