How can an average joe get from 1800 to master level?

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Avatar of JurrYan
Stil1 wrote:
JurrYan wrote:

I just hit 1800 in around 2 years and want to get to master level in the next couple of years, but I do not know how to progress further? Does anyone have suggestions

Study, study, study.

Play, play, play.

Review, review, review.

Repeat, repeat, repeat, until all you think about is chess, all you dream about is chess, all you live for is chess, chess, CHESS ...

Then you'll be firmly on the path to mastery. (Or at least, on the path to obsession.  )

Sounds great! I already am obsessed so that won't be a problem haha

Avatar of nklristic
JurrYan wrote:
nklristic wrote:
verylate wrote:

Thanks for crushing my dream, nklristic. Maybe I have to fall back on my other childhood passion, and become an ice hockey player. The Leafs like to pay big bucks to older players, I hope 65 isn't too old for them.

(Yeah, I've heard it before. It's a baby's game now. Didn't Tukmakov say that about chess?)

Yeah it is a baby game in a sense that no person who starts late can be world class. But OP didn't say anything about being a super GM, or a regular GM (although even there, there is this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Jiangchuan who started at 17), he is talking about 2 200 FIDE.

Compared to a GM, CM is actually a baby, and super GMs picture 2 200 level like a 9 year old starting out. For instance, chess YouTuber Hanging Pawns started several years ago (into his 20s), now he just passed 2 000 FIDE mark with his latest tournament.

Of course, 2 200 FIDE is still very difficult to achieve for an adult improver, and for majority it is impossible, but not for everyone. Major concern is of course time one can allocate for chess as an adult.

I think this Chinese guy was playing GO from his childhood and became (one of the) top players, which has similar thinking patterns as chess, so that is the main reason he could get such good I guess.

It may be a small part of the reason, but more important reason is that he was probably 2 700+ material if he started early.

In any case, even though it is very difficult to get to 2 200, I am sure that at least some people can do it. Now of course, vast majority will not be able to. happy.png

Avatar of technical_knockout

work on eradicating your weaknesses.  🙂

Avatar of nighteyes1234
verylate wrote:

When you find out, tell me. Since I've been retired, I've taken up jogging and hope to become an Olympic sprinter in the next few years. Hopefully before the knee replacement surgery.

 

That can arranged...for the right price.

You finally realize you are a woman, and things fall quickly into place.

Avatar of dpnorman

Most people don't. But it could happen.

You could be an average Joe in terms of intelligence or chess background but you wouldn't possibly be able to do it if you were an average Joe in effort. 

Avatar of Chr0mePl8edSt0vePipe
#33 oh my gosh that was hilarious
Avatar of sndeww
GraafPaul wrote:

You can follow multiple chess accounts on instagram. That can help you solve puzzles. One of my favourites is @Nemo.gambit.

Hope this helps!

instagram is not a good way to improve your chess, and neither is discord. I've been on both and they don't really help much. At least for beginners you can get help on discord but if you're looking to push for master level neither will help.

Avatar of llama47
nklristic wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

They can't, is the answer.

Well, the average Joe don't really get to 1 800 in 2 years in the first place, so perhaps the phrasing of the average Joe is a bit of an exaggeration.

Ok, but 1800 OTB is about 300 (?) points stronger than the OP so... for 2 years OP's progress is not slow but it's not fast either.

And I only mention it because master is an OTB title. Essentially he's saying he got to something like 1500 in 2 years, and now wants to get to 2200 in another "couple of years," which is probably not enough time.

Avatar of play4fun64

Some of my chess peers in the 80s become Masters by regularly studying Chess Informants. I suggest getting Chessbase as many young players become masters without a Coach by spending hours analysing thousands of games which include openings, tactics and endgames. As a free alternative, get SCID v PC and download a free database of few million games.

Avatar of llama47
JurrYan wrote:
tygxc wrote:

#17
Only analyse losses. You learn much more from a loss than from a win. It is also to counteract the human tendency to lavishly analyse wins and briefly shove aside losses with some excuse: a blunder, time trouble, bad opening...
#19
Average Joe = 2000 after 200 h - Lasker

Maybe in Laskers time, 2000 rated players were much weaker as there were no computers. So 200 hours with a GM would lead to a very good player

There was no rating system in Lasker's time.

tygxc isn't making sense.

And in general, anyone who claims "You can get to ____ easily with X, Y, Z" should let us know how many of their students are rated ____ (because most people who say this are just imaging things).

Avatar of sndeww
llama47 wrote:
JurrYan wrote:
tygxc wrote:

#17
Only analyse losses. You learn much more from a loss than from a win. It is also to counteract the human tendency to lavishly analyse wins and briefly shove aside losses with some excuse: a blunder, time trouble, bad opening...
#19
Average Joe = 2000 after 200 h - Lasker

Maybe in Laskers time, 2000 rated players were much weaker as there were no computers. So 200 hours with a GM would lead to a very good player

There was no rating system in Lasker's time.

tygxc isn't making sense.

You should analyze both wins and losses as well. Just because you won a game doesn't mean your play was impeccable.

Avatar of llama47

Yeah, only analyzing losses is silly advice. Like you said, sometimes you win games where you played badly... it's just... if I post something every time I disagree with him it will look like bullying or like I hate him or something... so I gotta pace myself lol.

When I was seriously trying to improve, I was pretty negative about 95% of my games. Games were I lost were disappointing for obvious reasons, but also games that I won were disappointing if I was ever behind or had made some mistakes. Also games that I won easily were disappointing because my opponent didn't put up a fight.

Sometimes I had to laugh at myself for disliking all the games I played that weekend tongue.png

 

Avatar of nklristic
llama47 wrote:
nklristic wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

They can't, is the answer.

Well, the average Joe don't really get to 1 800 in 2 years in the first place, so perhaps the phrasing of the average Joe is a bit of an exaggeration.

Ok, but 1800 OTB is about 500 points stronger than the OP so... for 2 years OP's progress is not slow but it's not fast either.

And I only mention it because master is an OTB title. Essentially he's saying he got to something like 1500 in 2 years, and now wants to get to 2200 in another "couple of years," which is probably not enough time.

It depends. I've seen some 1 900 people Uscf around 1900 rapid here as well. I am beating 1 500+ FIDE players (found their ratings on FIDE website), and it is not really such a strange occurrence now, they are rated around 1 700 rapid here, while playing longer games. Perhaps there is a difference between rapid rating here achieved with long games (60|0 and 45|45 I usually play) and rapid rating in 10 minutes pool, but I have no basis to be sure.

So I think 500 points difference is an exaggeration, at least for most of the people. I think the average difference on this level , at least in the rapid pool I am playing is around 200 points, but it probably varies a bit from person to person.

This is the best comparison I know of, as it is based on a survey if I remember correctly. Of course, that +/- 135 and +/-220 is a pretty wide margin and it can vary a lot. happy.png

https://chessgoals.com/rating-comparison/

And sure, you are correct that 2-3 years will probably not be enough, but a couple of years may be like 5-6 as well (although I know a couple should mean around 2). In any case, it would be a great achievement.

Avatar of nklristic
llama47 wrote:

Yeah, only analyzing losses is silly advice. Like you said, sometimes you win games where you played badly... it's just... if I post something every time I disagree with him it will look like bullying or like I hate him or something... so I gotta pace myself lol.

When I was seriously trying to improve, I was pretty negative about 95% of my games. Games were I lost were disappointing for obvious reasons, but also games that I won were disappointing if I was ever behind or had made some mistakes. Also games that I won easily were disappointing because my opponent didn't put up a fight.

Sometimes I had to laugh at myself for disliking all the games I played that weekend

 

I am pretty much negative about 95% of my games as well. grin.png

And I agree, I would analyze every game, there is always something to be discovered.

Avatar of llama47
nklristic wrote:
llama47 wrote:
nklristic wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

They can't, is the answer.

Well, the average Joe don't really get to 1 800 in 2 years in the first place, so perhaps the phrasing of the average Joe is a bit of an exaggeration.

Ok, but 1800 OTB is about 500 points stronger than the OP so... for 2 years OP's progress is not slow but it's not fast either.

And I only mention it because master is an OTB title. Essentially he's saying he got to something like 1500 in 2 years, and now wants to get to 2200 in another "couple of years," which is probably not enough time.

It depends. I've seen some 1 900 people Uscf around 1900 rapid here as well. I am beating 1 500+ FIDE players (found their ratings on FIDE website), and it is not really such a strange occurrence now, they are rated around 1 700 rapid here, while playing longer games. Perhaps there is a difference between rapid rating here achieved with long games (60|0 and 45|45 I usually play) and rapid rating in 10 minutes pool, but I have no basis to be sure.

So I think 500 points difference is an exaggeration, at least for most of the people. I think the average difference on this level , at least in the rapid pool I am playing is around 200 points, but it probably varies a bit from person to person.

This is the best comparison I know of, as it is based on a survey if I remember correctly. Of course, that +/- 135 and +/-220 is a pretty wide margin and it can vary a lot.

https://chessgoals.com/rating-comparison/

And sure, you are correct that 2-3 years will probably not be enough, but a couple of years may be like 5-6 as well (although I know a couple should mean around 2). In any case, it would be a great achievement.

I edited that after I posted it. Yeah, 500 is too much.

I don't know much about rapid, I've hardly played it (not only on chess.com, but I've basically never played it online in general).

I've been impressed with exactly zero of the 1900s I've played in rapid so far (I don't think I've played anyone 2000 yet). But when I play a 2000 USCF player OTB it's really hard for me. IMO there's no comparison. Definitely multiple 100s of points difference... but how much I don't know.

Avatar of SmallerCircles

I don't have any business commenting on this really, but I would hazard a guess that detailed analysis of one or more of those "grandmaster repertoire" books and creating files of prep for various circumstances could help you reach that level.

Avatar of llama47

Oh, my record against 2000s in 10|0 rapid has been 2 wins out of 5 games, so I've played a few.

I was playing 2 or 3 game simuls though so... lol tongue.png

But I guess I don't know what my OTB rating is either. I haven't played in something like... 2 years?

Avatar of nklristic
llama47 wrote:
nklristic wrote:
llama47 wrote:
nklristic wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

They can't, is the answer.

Well, the average Joe don't really get to 1 800 in 2 years in the first place, so perhaps the phrasing of the average Joe is a bit of an exaggeration.

Ok, but 1800 OTB is about 500 points stronger than the OP so... for 2 years OP's progress is not slow but it's not fast either.

And I only mention it because master is an OTB title. Essentially he's saying he got to something like 1500 in 2 years, and now wants to get to 2200 in another "couple of years," which is probably not enough time.

It depends. I've seen some 1 900 people Uscf around 1900 rapid here as well. I am beating 1 500+ FIDE players (found their ratings on FIDE website), and it is not really such a strange occurrence now, they are rated around 1 700 rapid here, while playing longer games. Perhaps there is a difference between rapid rating here achieved with long games (60|0 and 45|45 I usually play) and rapid rating in 10 minutes pool, but I have no basis to be sure.

So I think 500 points difference is an exaggeration, at least for most of the people. I think the average difference on this level , at least in the rapid pool I am playing is around 200 points, but it probably varies a bit from person to person.

This is the best comparison I know of, as it is based on a survey if I remember correctly. Of course, that +/- 135 and +/-220 is a pretty wide margin and it can vary a lot.

https://chessgoals.com/rating-comparison/

And sure, you are correct that 2-3 years will probably not be enough, but a couple of years may be like 5-6 as well (although I know a couple should mean around 2). In any case, it would be a great achievement.

I edited that after I posted it. Yeah, 500 is too much.

I don't know much about rapid, I've hardly played it (not only on chess.com, but I've basically never played it online in general).

I've been impressed with exactly zero of the 1900s I've played in rapid so far (I don't think I've played anyone 2000 yet). But when I play a 2000 USCF player OTB it's really hard for me. IMO there's no comparison. Definitely multiple 100s of points difference... but how much I don't know.

I actually played a few 2 000+ players, and I have an equal to a positive score, on a sample size of like 5-6 games (mostly in 30|0 games when I can't wait for 60|0). Of course this doesn't mean anything, simply a coincidence, but some of them were exclusively playing 10|0 before that game, so perhaps it made some difference.

For whatever reason, people tend to play some calmer maneuvering positions where I have to worry mostly about how will my pawns look etc., at least those I've encountered. In those games, I was mainly able to survive tactics where I am bad at in my opinion and to get to the endgame, where I can sometimes hold my own against people better than myself.

It is sometimes really strange. 1 600 and 1 700 launch some attack and I just die, and these realistically stronger people just pace themselves to a draw.

In one game, I was totally lost, but the opponent thought he could sacrifice a rook and then get it back, but he couldn't and I won, and he had a ton of time left.

Avatar of llama47
nklristic wrote:

It is sometimes really strange. 1 600 and 1 700 launch some attack and I just die, and these realistically stronger people just pace themselves to a draw.

Hah, that sounds like me. I "pace myself" right into a draw sometimes, and I generally don't play very aggressively.

Avatar of sndeww
llama47 wrote:
nklristic wrote:

It is sometimes really strange. 1 600 and 1 700 launch some attack and I just die, and these realistically stronger people just pace themselves to a draw.

Hah, that sounds like me. I "pace myself" right into a draw sometimes, and I generally don't play very aggressively.

don't you play that g4 thing against the alekhine