How does Magnus survive without opening prep???

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DrCheckevertim
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

Carlsen is lazy, just like the young Karpov was. He's almost like Karpov reincarnated, in terms of his lack of opening prep/knowledge.

 K̶a̶r̶p̶o̶v̶  Capablanca Undecided

sapientdust
Estragon wrote:

Carlsen is different.  Of course he knows the openings, but he knows them in a different way....  And he can see the flaws, ... that you don't play so well in quiet positions with Rooks and Bishops of opposite color, or that you tend to resolve pawn tension prematurely on the side you castled.

Carlsen's preparation, then, is more like Lasker's.  He isn't going to wow the crowd with TNs in the openings so much, but he manages to get people into positions they are less comfortable with, where he has some chances to make them squirm.

Very interesting. I haven't heard this before -- that Carlsen's preparation for his opponents is targeted not towards openings or specific positions that they don't play well but towards types of positions they play less well. Do you have a source for this, or is the hypothesis based on your own analysis?

AngeloPardi

Carlsen's preparation, then, is more like Lasker's.  He isn't going to wow the crowd with TNs in the openings so much, but he manages to get people into positions they are less comfortable with, where he has some chances to make them squirm.

I think it's a good analysis : Lasker use to often have a worse position around move 15-20, then outplayed his opponents.

Elubas

Good points, Estragon.

jesterville

Good Analysis Estragon,

I believe Magnus knows that all his peers are "booked up", and rely heavily on this preparation for an advantage. He is also aware that he has a superior middle and endgame than any of them. Based on these two facts, his strategy is sound...get out of theory ASAP...and out-chess them in the middle an end-game. How do you prepare for this monster?...you can't.

atarw
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

Carlsen is lazy, just like the young Karpov was. He's almost like Karpov reincarnated, in terms of his lack of opening prep/knowledge.

Does that mean he'll lose against some re-incarnated Kasparov?

Pre_VizsIa
chessteenager wrote:

I mean you would think someone like ivanchuk would beat Carlsen every time because of how sharp his opening preparation is but it turns out carlsens and ivanchuks record is +8 -2 =11 for Carlsen (on my database). When they say Carlsen doesnt know opening theory/ do preparation what does that mean? like no he doesnt know the 23 move of the sicilian dragon yugoslav deffered or what? How is Magnus surviving? Super Gm's should be able ot get an easy advantage out of the opening against him? Carlsen is amazing tactically and hes good at grinding out a won endgame.

Lol. He does do opening prep; he's just such a genius that he doesn't need to do as much as the rest of the GM's.

ZAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Who says Carlsen doesn't know opening theory? I know for a fact that he does preparation before games.

Scottrf

I'm not sure if this is exactly applicable to Carlsen, but this reminds me of when an interviewer asked Michael Johnson (paraphrasing) how much better he would be if he had more of a 'normal' running technique. He said 'I'd be back there with them'.

Moyuba

magnus plays lines which are not common / get out of mainstream theory which the other top gms will know inside out. in order to do this, you need to know what the main theory is in the first place and then figure out how to break it without getting a lost game. this obviously takes prep.

Fear_ItseIf

of crouse carlsen has opening prep, him being 'lazy' refers to the fact he doesnt attempt to get an advantage with novelties all the time, hed rather just learn some established theory, avoid novelties and play chess.
At the top level this is 'lazy', but his prep is still a million times better than any of ours.

ZAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
Moyuba wrote:

magnus plays lines which are not common / get out of mainstream theory which the other top gms will know inside out. in order to do this, you need to know what the main theory is in the first place and then figure out how to break it without getting a lost game. this obviously takes prep.

Exactly right!

SmyslovFan

Not only that, Carlsen plays main lines as Black. He focuses his theoretical energies on his Black repertoire where he plays Nimzo/Queen's Indian lines the most.

Carlsen's strategy as white is different from most players. His goal isn't to gain a theoretical advantage, it's to reach a playable middle game. There's far more scope if you aren't concerned about gaining an advantage.

Carlsen's strategy seems the complete antithesis of Alexander Grischuk's, where Grischuk seems to seek out positions where there's no possible way for the other side to play for a win. Grischuk plays mostly theoretical lines. This often leads to incredibly quick draws as White.

ghostofmaroczy

SmyslovFan that is an excellent point about the contrast between Carlsen and Grischuk.  Grischuk runs his clock down searching for the best moves with white.

chessteenager

Wait. Grischuk is one of my favorate players. Winner of the 2012 blitz championship. He has a very flashy style with killer attacks. In the past year or so i havent seen that guy go for quick draws at all or play openings that shut down all possibilities for his opponent to win. He plays the advanced agains thte caro which gives huge opportunities. He allows the Open sicilian and plays the Ruy. Every single white opening in my database has a positive score for him. He is entering the Canidates which for sure, no player who is looking to draw for white or even black will win. 

In the canidates nothing will matter except winning. No one cares about your rating, no one cares how drawish your petroff is, no one cares how fast you can get into the berlin endgame. 

Well will see Grischuk at his best playing 1.e4 and the sicilian looking for a win and only a win no matter who the opponent is. 

jesterville

I belive the point made about Grischuk's drawing tendencies, was based on his strategy at the last Candidates...will he change it now, especially since it carried him so close? 

TheOldReb

I believe the upcoming candidates tournament will be won by Carlsen , Aronian , or Kramnik .  I can't seen any of the other entrants having a chance . 

waffllemaster
Reb wrote:

I believe the upcoming candidates tournament will be won by Carlsen , Aronian , or Kramnik .  I can't seen any of the other entrants having a chance . 

The two times dark horse Gelfand will surprise us all again lol.

AndyClifton

I loved when somebody on here once accidentally rendered his name as Gandelf...lol  I suppose he is a wizard of sorts...

waffllemaster

The chess world should prepare itself for the awsome fury of Anand - Gelfand... round two!

AndyClifton wrote:

I loved when somebody on here once accidentally rendered his name as Gandelf...lol  I suppose he is a wizard of sorts...

 

Watching some games yesterday one person mentioned the player Arron Levonian which I thought was pretty hilarious myself, although probably on purpose heh.