How to detect cheaters in OTB tournaments

I'm repeating a previous thread that was mistakenly locked by the mods. http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/how-to-detect-cheaters-in-otb-tournaments

mods - OTB means "over the board" - real life not online.

Reporting someone you suspect of cheating in an OTB tournament to Chess.com would not solve the problem.

lol,clueless staff

You're rated 1500, no need to worry about detecting for cheaters.

The death penality should be imposed on anyone who cheats OTB.  

heheh, yeah, I thought the original thread was an interesting topic for experienced players to discuss.

Is there a dection system that could work? If you shut down wifi communications in the playing hall, then you still have satellite iphone type of technology.

It doesn't work to have arbiters keep their eyes on players, as the recent Ivanov case, if we believe he was cheating, would prove.

Hand signals are hard to detect - 4 signs could represent black square, white square, which quadrant the square to occupy occurs, what kind of piece should be placed in the square - pawn, minor, major, queen. These would only have to occur once or a few times during a game so they would be very hard to detect in some venues that allow audience proximity to players.

So will there ever be a reliable detection method when trusting the players is no longer an option?

My rating on chess.com isn't an ELO. You're almost as bad as the mods, lol.

in order to detect cheating you need to know how it is done. people are still puzzled how Ivanov actually did/does it.

but I'm also for a strict punishment for caught cheaters, since they are destroying the game. with the recent trends a non-GM cannot beat a GM without someone pointing fingers on him and call him cheater. maybe death penalty is a bit harsh, but a lifetime ban would be okay.

I read an article here a while back. I think it was about the pros and cons of computers in chess.  It talked about how cheating in the highest levels of chess will soon become almost imposable to detect.  Someone rated 2200+ would not need specific instructions.  A signal from an accomplice that there was something in the position to be exploited would be enough, and such a thing could be as simple as scratching your nose, or sneezing.

I don't see how hard could it be to prevent cheating.

When I did my exams at uni I had to leave my phone turned off and in a separate bag to be left on the floor. Why are they allowing the players the have electronical devices on themselves?

Pass them through a metal detector, and check that they don't have anything in their ears (even looking inside their ears with a light).

Have the players be distant from the public, or if really necessary, beyond a one-way glass.

problem solved.

Last month a player was caught using the toilet as a cheating desk. His opponent dragged him out to the arbiter. Both were not allowed to finish the tournament.

• "My opponent, after each move, he went out (to the toilet). He went in and out 20 times. We had made 24 moves. "After the second or third move I knew he was checking (on the computer)." Mr Mirza said he followed and looked inside a toilet cubicle. "He was on an Android tablet and was putting the moves into it. I wanted to jump inside and get his Android, but I couldn't reach. I couldn't go over the (top). I went straight to the controller, Gerry Graham, and told him to follow me. I shouted and disturbed other players from their games because I was mad. "Of course I was mad, so I smashed in the door. The guy was sitting, but not using the toilet. I pulled him out."

Should extra arbiters be used to serve as toilet attendants?

The computer at the chess set that they run the software on should be a bit of a giveaway.

That works... if (1) you have a metal detector, and facilities to store personal stuff ; and (2) prevent outsiders from entering the game area (otherwise these take on the cheating task and communicate by code - we French have always been at the tip of progress for cheating) ; and (3) the players accept to obey the rules.

(2) and (3) will become more acceptable to the players as the time will see an explosion of Ivanovs, but (1) is impossible for small tournaments with small prize funds (for example subscription-only tournaments).

How do you guys feel about the idea of entrapment - with hidden security methods and lucrative prizes announced, all designed to attract and catch cheaters. Is that ethical?

Is there a way to prevent cheating 100%?  The sad answer is, NO!

However, a few changes should be made to at least reduce it.  For starters, anything in your ears other than a legitimate hearing aid (which should be cleared with the directors before round 1), and "foam" earplugs, should be completely BANNED!  Yes, I'm talking things like walkmen, MP3 players, IPods, etc.  This should be a USCF-imposed, BCF-imposed, FIDE-imposed, and Any-Other-Organization-Imposed rule!  Doesn't matter if it's a rated club game, the World Open, or the World Championship, they should be BANNED.  Some people take recorded information and listen to it.  Some have a communication chip implanted into those things.  And Quite Frankly, I don't need to be listening to you blasting Metallica, Bon Jovi, or Britney Spears.  The fact that it's not loud enough for us to hear the words is meaningless.  If I can hear a beat, or even a musical note of any type, IT'S TOO LOUD!

Secondly, the CCA imposes a ban of leaving the floor that you are on if you or your opponent has an 80% score or higher.  This should be imposed on ALL players at ALL scores in ALL rounds!  If you have a medical reason that you need to leave the floor the playing hall is on, a TD will go with you.

That narrows it down to incidents occurring with non-audio devices on the same floor.  Can you catch it all?  No.  But patterns like the bathroom story above that lead to suspicion will often lead to catching the cheater.  If you are caught cheating, it really should be a lifetime ban, and that goes for ALL competitive activities.  One strike rule for cheating if you ask me.

I'll even give you guys a brief story in another game.  I wasn't at this event, but 2 players that were partners in a Bridge tournament were eventually caught cheating after doing this for quite a while.  You get dealt 13 cards.  The way they held their cards, 1 finger in back and 4 in front, or 2 in back and 3 in front, or 3 in back 2 in front, or 4 in back and just the thumb in front told each other whether they had 0-1 Hearts, Exactly 2 Hearts, Exactly 3 Hearts, or 4 or more Hearts in their hand.  The two players have a permanent ban from the ACBL (American Contract Bridge League).

Mp3's,Ipod's?USCF allows these things?

It used to be flat out "yes".  Now it's TD's discretion, even though they "suggest" not allowing them.  Just put in this past January I think (if not, it was January 2012).

Actually, it's older than I thought.  Effective 1/1/2010:

20N. Electronic communication devices.

Except for medical devices, electronic devices including but not limited to cell phones, pagers, computers, PDA, remote internet access, and two way radios are strictly forbidden to be used in the tournament room. Exempted from these regulations are chess clocks, approved electronic scoresheets and personal wristwatches (without alarm). Noise deadening earphones, noise canceling devices, non-electronic earplugs and music players may be used at the discretion and with permission of the tournament director, as long as such devices do not cause a disturbance to the opponent or players on nearby boards.

What are you saying...it's enough to forbid the players to keep electronic devices on their person. No space of storage? No problem, just have them put it in a plastic bag to leave on the floor next to them. Just like they did in my uni exams.

They allow players to have computers in their pockets and then they complain about cheating? FIDE etc. are just a bunch of clowns. They can't just forbid the use, they must forbid having these devices on the players.

Stopping cheating once and for all it's really easy. They just need the will to do so.

And by the way, you can buy a handheld metal detector off amazon for 20 pounds.

But then you have to screen your 1200 players before round 1. And obviously, with trained staff. How do you do that fast ?

Fair enough for the rest - but group cheating remains an issue if outsiders can access the playing room.

Really ?

I can understand that going out in the street with something that kills the cell phones is forbidden. But aren't things different when you agree to participate in a tournament without using anything ?

And anyways, no need to jam them. Just forbid them, screening the players at entrance. Ok, it will look ridiculous to have the airport standard in chess tournaments, but it works. (the problem is again the cost, this is unpractical for basic tournaments)