https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_and_knight_checkmate
I can't mate with a King, Bishop and Knight...a draw?
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Aug 10, 2018
0
#2
Can anyone post some kind of illustration? Thanks. That of course if isn't a draw.
Aug 10, 2018
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#5
isabela14 wrote:
I was playing with K, Bishop and Knight OTB against his K and I just went in circles. I believe the positions where (White) Ke3, nf4, and bf6. His K is on e6. Is this a draw? Or can someone show me how? My opponent had this big grin on his face and I wanted to slap him...lol. He told me a chess master caliber can do it. I had 15 minutes on my clock when the circus began. I gave up after 20 or so moves.
It takes like 30+ moves in most cases to force a checkmate with just king, knight and bishop against lone king. And that is with perfect play. Otherwise it will take you 50, 100 or more. If you don't know how to do it (heck I wouldn't know), then it's not something you'd figure during a game. It's of course possible do it in less moves, if you are lucky with the piece placement (king already in the correct corner, and your pieces close). Not sure if practicing that endgame is all that beneficial either, or mostly just waste of time due to the rarity (and level of difficulty to do it) of it happening. I've played 2000 games online so far, as far as I recall never having encountered this endgame yet.
Wow! This is my first for an end game. I guess he was right when he said it takes a master caliber to solve....the key word is "perfect play".
These videos helped me to learn it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3EqM17jvOc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsvrzltyyYw
Aug 10, 2018
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#10
JamesColeman wrote:
It’s like a lot of things - not particularly difficult once you learn it.
You can start with learning the basic theoretical position when you have the ideal set up Wk@f6 wb@f5 wn@f7 bk@f8 (can’t be post a diagram on my phone sorry) (the first move is 1.Bh7) and then move onto situations where your pieces need to coordinate first.
If you didnt know it was a win, even if you didn’t know how to do it - that probably means you haven’t spent enough time on studying endgames...
"Not particularly difficult" for you might be quite a bit more than that for most beginners.. ;-)
I think I could learn it with some practice (especially now that I watched Jerrys great demonstration), but question is if it's really that beneficial thing to learn for my overall chess study. I still have so many more common endgames with just rooks, pawns and major pieces to work through, I don't really see the purpose of investing much time for this endgame. Then again, I do see how learning this could help understanding piece play in the endgame better.
i have a book and it says amateurs should be able to mate within 1 minute and professionals within 30 seconds
I've had to do it once in a game that mattered (also took me exactly 34 moves, oddly enough). The guy who traded down to that material balance offered a draw, which was unfortunate for him since I knew the finish. I've also seen the mating pattern come into effect in the middlegame.
There are really only two things you need to know - 1) That mate has to come in the corner which the bishop can check, and 2) The knight and bishop can combine to block off four squares in a row, while the king blocks three more. Knowing how to corral the enemy king with just minor pieces doesn't take that long to get the hang of, and once you have the enemy king corralled, it's just a matter of knowing which way to drive him.
Aug 10, 2018
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#13
JamesColeman wrote:
As you say, I think it’s quite beneficial for learning how the knight and bishop harmonise, even if you never get the ending, it also means you don’t have to play suboptimal moves to avoid it, in a situation where the ending might be on the horizon. Each to their own though...
Well...
I did it! I stumbled here and there, but once I got the pieces aligned correctly (as shown in Jerrys video) I was able to do it. This was actually the drill on endgames where I gave up last time, thinking it was way too difficult, and the king always slipped away.
It was actually pretty fun, might practice it just for leisure time after all...
there are drills vs stockfish here on chess.com to practice this if you want
also there is a var akobian chess st louis video on this mate
Lol. I'm trying to simulate (without looking at you guys cheat sheet) against my nephew with a 25 minute time clock. Any wrong move I make seems to prolong the game. What gets me is when to move away my b and n for "waiting" move. I need to really sit down and analyze as to when, where and what for each move...time ticks, ticks...
I was playing with K, Bishop and Knight OTB against his K and I just went in circles. I believe the positions where (White) Ke3, nf4, and bf6. His K is on e6. Is this a draw? Or can someone show me how? My opponent had this big grin on his face and I wanted to slap him...lol. He told me a chess master caliber can do it. I had 15 minutes on my clock when the circus began. I gave up after 20 or so moves.