Ivanov speaks out!

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That's pretty much what i was saying.

beardogjones
Sunshiny wrote:

That's pretty much what i was saying.

Ok... This evidence is even stronger if it is known that Houdini2

uses some randomness to order close evaluations.

AdamRinkleff
Kingpatzer wrote:

This is not merely just a case of playing well, it's a case of playing exactly like a computer over a prolonged series of games.

Except there is no definition of exactly what a computer plays like. You are simply jumping to conclusions. If there is enough information to convince knowledgeable people that he cheated, he will presumably be banned by FIDE. However, since he hasn't been banned, there must not be enough information.

It is a complete fallacy to say that Ivanov played the 'top computer moves'. There is no such thing as a 'top computer move'. Different computers will generate different top moves, and they will generally change their mind quite frequently.

iacogio
AdamRinkleff wrote:
Kingpatzer wrote:

This is not merely just a case of playing well, it's a case of playing exactly like a computer over a prolonged series of games.

Except there is no definition of exactly what a computer plays like. You are simply jumping to conclusions. If there is enough information to convince knowledgeable people that he cheated, he will presumably be banned by FIDE. However, since he hasn't been banned, there must not be enough information.

It is a complete fallacy to say that Ivanov played the 'top computer moves'. There is no such thing as a 'top computer move'. Different computers will generate different top moves, and they will generally change their mind quite frequently.

So let me understand the situation: from one side we have a professor of computer science and engineering, that in your opinion is not qualified, and his statistical analysis are evidently not correct, compared to your understanding of computers and science.

Then we have a Fide Master which also puts his name on the line, and analyze Ivanov's games, and share with the chess community his findings, based on his years of training and experience, and of course his job, since he lives from chess, but he is also not qualified enough, compared to your chess understanding.

Then we have you, the troll of century, who doesn't show any analysis to refute the computer science and engineering professor, and doesn't show how different engines would play differently. Of course you also don't show if there are other players in chess history who had the same result on a 9 rounds tournament. But of course we must give credibility to a troll, because everyone knows that in internet the writings of a troll have more credibility of real life professionals.

Yeah, that makes sense!

eddysallin

What could he say.....I cheated!                     What for? He and his partner must have had enough computer knowledge to know "cheating questions" were  sure to follow ? Can it be they wanted nothing more then to show everyone up?

axhed
cookiemonster161140 wrote:

I don't see anywhere in this thread that the games were fed into an engine for analysis/cheating detection

lol 

jesterville

I believe Ivanov himself refused the stripsearch...or so he suggested in his "defence".

jesterville

Analysing the best move is the easy part...help from the outside, following the live feed, and use of an Engine. The hard part is delivery of the info without detection. With technology today, micro trasmitters/cameras/receivers are available cheaply. Also used may be signals from third parties in the public area. The most expensive method might be hearing implants to actually receive spoken moves from outside source.

jesterville

There are so many ways to transfer the info. This is why I am so disappointed that preventative means are not being used. I think players are still going into halls with their cell phones. The most basic would be searches done prior to matches, and all feeds of games delayed. FIDE is acting like the absentee landlord.

g-levenfish

Hey iacogio! I beat Rybka,Houidini AND Fritz as white in the same starting position as your game!

MyCowsCanFly

It will be interesting to see how well he performs in future tournaments.

Ubik42
MyCowsCanFly wrote:

It will be interesting to see how well he performs in future tournaments.

 "There is a problem with your registration papers, Mr. Ivanov. It seems we lost them...again."

blueemu
[COMMENT DELETED]
skinnypurpleducks

He is obviously cheating... I just participated in inter school sports where I went to play with my school team... Now if u lose a game u r knocked out... If u draw u have to play again until somebody wins... It's a 30 minute match... I won all my games against schools nearby... I got into the zones.. I won all and drew one... I managed to qualify to play for the state team... Now this was an akward situation... It was me.. Not rated in OTB 1500 blitz on chess.com vs an FM and an IM... And another 1700 player... Now I tried my best :) I lost to the IM embarrassingly in the opening where I dropped 2 pieces lol I played fairly well against the FM where I got to the middle game and my queen got cornered and captured and I played my best against an 1700 where I had a losing endgame and eventually lost... Interestilyng this forum made me think of Lilov... Can u guys see the suspicion arising if I beat the IM or maybe even the FM? Come on guys how could this 2200 get all computer moves...

AdamRinkleff
iacogio wrote:

Then we have you, the troll of century, who doesn't show any analysis to refute the computer science and engineering professor...

Am I really the troll of the century?

Regardless, all I'm saying is that if its so obvious that he cheated... why doesn't FIDE ban him? Someone, somewhere, must have some doubts! I'm not saying he didn't cheat. In fact, I'd go so far as to say its more than likely that he did. However, I don't think the evidence is conclusive. I'm far more convinced of Bindrich's guilt, and even there I couldn't say with certainty.

I'll admit, I haven't paid that much attention, its not my job to find cheaters. However, I would think that FIDE might do something if the evidence is so obvious, as you claim. Otherwise, I must assume that the evidence isn't entirely convincing.

Honestly, I don't think it matters so much whether he was cheating or not. The real issue is that cheating is possible. With live broadcasts of games, and modern electronics, it would be quite easy to arrange something using vibrating pulses, transmitting moves via Morse code. I would do it myself if I had the money to buy the necessary equipment. In the future, I expect cheaters will deliberately make minor mistakes, so that it doesn't appear as if they are actually cheating.

The solution seems obvious: get rid of Monroi, get rid of live broadcasting, get rid of the audience, ban cellphones and pocket computers, and introduce handheld metal detectors. Problem solved.

Ubik42
AdamRinkleff wrote:
iacogio wrote:

Then we have you, the troll of century, who doesn't show any analysis to refute the computer science and engineering professor...

Am I really the troll of the century?

Regardless, all I'm saying is that if its so obvious that he cheated... why doesn't FIDE ban him? Someone, somewhere, must have some doubts! I'm not saying he didn't cheat. In fact, I'd go so far as to say its more than likely that he did. However, I don't think the evidence is conclusive. I'm far more convinced of Bindrich's guilt, and even there I couldn't say with certainty.

I'll admit, I haven't paid that much attention, its not my job to find cheaters. However, I would think that FIDE might do something if the evidence is so obvious, as you claim. Otherwise, I must assume that the evidence isn't entirely convincing.

Honestly, I don't think it matters so much whether he was cheating or not. The real issue is that cheating is possible. With live broadcasts of games, and modern electronics, it would be quite easy to arrange something using vibrating pulses, transmitting moves via Morse code. I would do it myself if I had the money to buy the necessary equipment. In the future, I expect cheaters will deliberately make minor mistakes, so that it doesn't appear as if they are actually cheating.

The solution seems obvious: get rid of Monroi, get rid of live broadcasting, get rid of the audience, ban cellphones and pocket computers, and introduce handheld metal detectors. Problem solved.

You would do it yourself, eh?

Scottrf

They haven't banned him because they don't have a system in place which sets out a statistical level of guilt. But you'd know that if you read the article.

gaereagdag

Has it got to the stage of the unthinkable?

Cheating is so hard to detect, in fact impossibly so, that you may as well put houdini in between the clocks and either player can freely look at it?

Giacometti

I am more than willing to allow a strong player to have a trememdous tournament and play way above his or her level.  I have done this myself, knocking off experts and even 1 master though I am a class B player. 

Scottrf

Hardly, since all the experts are certain he cheated.