OTB chess vs Internet chess
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TheOldReb
Oct 18, 2007
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#21
Hooper, I am a dinosaur and am not even sure what you are talking about? If you explain I will gladly answer. 
Reb wrote: Hooper, I am a dinosaur and am not even sure what you are talking about? If you explain I will gladly answer.
Someone mentioned being at a disadvantage OTB because they were used to viewing a 2D computer chess board. My question was about those DGT USB chess boards, where you move real pieces (and pawns) on a real chess board--using a real clock as well--which acts as an interface to a chess program on the computer. One of these things...
Hey hoop! I have played on those boards here in Portugal a number of times! Yes, I like them just fine and they are usually used on only the top boards in Opens but in closed events I think they are used on all the boards. Silly me.
Oct 19, 2007
0
#24
Shacom is another system out there similar to the DGT system, by the way I think the Shacom came earlier than the DGT did, Shacom system is Russian
coming back to the real subject, I think the problem with internet chess is that there is a significant amount of chess fans out there who really believe that their blitz and bullet internet ratings have some kind of meaning, and sometimes you even find yourselve having to read their impolite messages after they get lucky in a blitz game against you
OTB chess is better for meeting new people and socializing and seeing new places. I think the convenience of net chess though is its biggest advantage. Its like living in a chess club where players dont go home nor even sleep!
Phobetor said:
online chess you can also have ratings showing your progress, but those ratings are quite meaningless. In otb chess you can set real goals, like trying to get 2300 FIDE within a year or two (which is my current goal). In otb chess, ratings actually mean something.
online chess you can also have ratings showing your progress, but those ratings are quite meaningless. In otb chess you can set real goals, like trying to get 2300 FIDE within a year or two (which is my current goal). In otb chess, ratings actually mean something.
I take it by "meaningless" you mean they have no 'official' status as do FIDE ratings, but they are far from meaningless. In fact, they indicate everything a FIDE rating does: overall level, progress, comparative strength, grouping parameters for matches and tournaments, etc.
I fail to see how one cannot set "real goals" in Internet chess as one can in OTB chess.
One might consider this: an Internet site rating may be even more meaningful than a FIDE rating if it reflects large-scale competition, since Internet chess provides the opportunity of playing many more opponents than does OTB.
I feel exactly as you do; for some reason, the dimension of depth clouds my visualization of the current position and hinders my visualizing of planned moves and their consequences.
I've played OTB (casual and tournament), correspondence style (postal, email, and web based), and online live. I prefer the web based correspondence style. I can do it easily from home, I have much more control over the time I'm spending, I can spend as much time as I want thinking about my move, and even sleep on it. As for it being less social, that's a benefit to me. I have not enjoyed the company of the players at the local chess club very much.
And anyone who thinks OTB ratings are more real than online ratings doesn't understand ratings.
bit of a sweeping statement, Ichabod, considerin' how many of these NON-chess-players are exposed by the staff at this site every day - I has been here only a short while, an' I knows there is differences between CC an' OTB, but I hasn't even got close to my FIDE number on this site 
- hmmmm - wonder if it's cos I playin' on my own or often in a hurry - suspect it cos half the time I is playin' engines - how does u factor that into understandin' 'ratings' - or as I prefer 'numbers' ???
I'd happily play anyone on this site OTB for money - except Natalie - I think she too good for me 
ichabod801 wrote:
I've played OTB (casual and tournament), correspondence style (postal, email, and web based), and online live. I prefer the web based correspondence style. I can do it easily from home, I have much more control over the time I'm spending, I can spend as much time as I want thinking about my move, and even sleep on it. As for it being less social, that's a benefit to me. I have not enjoyed the company of the players at the local chess club very much.
And anyone who thinks OTB ratings are more real than online ratings doesn't understand ratings.
I am also convinced that OTB ratings are more meaningful/reliable than online ratings. The main reason is simply that there IS so much cheating online. People using engines is probably the most common form of cheating but its not the only one. I have personally known of instances in which a GM account ( on ICC ) was being used by someone other than the GM.
I have played on several different chess servers since I started playing online in 1996 and on all of them have reached ratings higher than my actual otb rating by 200-400 points. So, I would say that online ratings are significantly inflated, compared to otb ratings.
wah heyy!! we musta bin typin' at the same time , Reb !! - totally in agreement - can't wait to meet you across the board in a proper tournament
Thanks guys for proving my point. Your arguments for OTB ratings being more meaningful indicate that you don't understand ratings. There is no reason to expect ratings from two different groups to match up, and someone else cheating does not affect the validity of your rating.
ichabod801 wrote:
Thanks guys for proving my point. Your arguments for OTB ratings being more meaningful indicate that you don't understand ratings. There is no reason to expect ratings from two different groups to match up, and someone else cheating does not affect the validity of your rating.
I think it is you who do not understand. While the ratings from different groups dont have to "match up " as you say ..... if player A is much stronger than player B in chess ( OTB ) its only reasonable/logical that player A would also be much stronger in a different rating pool/group. Granted, the ratings of both may be different several hundred points from one environment/group to the other but the stronger player SHOULD be stronger in either environment as his " understanding " is greater. However, there are A class players ( otb ) that are higher rated than GMs on the net and we all know how this happens. The simple fact that this is the case pretty much makes online ratings meaningless as there is so much cheating going on.
AnthonyCG wrote:
OTB ratings aren't more meaningful but I think they are more accurate. They eliminate cheating (somewhat)"
Not necessarily so. In OTB you have the phenomenon of planned early draws to mutually protect ratings. Is that not a form of cheating?
While cheating does occur even in OTB chess I do believe its a lot less frequent and severe. Its more difficult to cheat otb undetected than it is in online play.
Reb wrote:
However, there are A class players ( otb ) that are higher rated than GMs on the net and we all know how this happens. The simple fact that this is the case pretty much makes online ratings meaningless as there is so much cheating going on.
I don't know this. What class A player has a higher net rating than a GM's net rating, without cheating under similar time controls? If the class A is cheating online, then it's a different player, and it's not a fair comparison. And other people cheating simply does not affect the accuracy of your rating. The rating system makes no difference between a real GM and someone who is cheating so that they can play as well as a GM.
ichabod801 wrote:
Reb wrote:
However, there are A class players ( otb ) that are higher rated than GMs on the net and we all know how this happens. The simple fact that this is the case pretty much makes online ratings meaningless as there is so much cheating going on.
I don't know this. What class A player has a higher net rating than a GM's net rating, without cheating under similar time controls? If the class A is cheating online, then it's a different player, and it's not a fair comparison. And other people cheating simply does not affect the accuracy of your rating. The rating system makes no difference between a real GM and someone who is cheating so that they can play as well as a GM.
There are A class players ( otb ) playing here on chess.com that have higher chess.com ratings than GM Julio Becerra ! Do you every check any of the top players here ? And your own rating is about 1000 points higher here than your otb uscf rating ?! hhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm 
ichabod, I've just read through your last post half a dozen times - an' I'm not remotely drunk (unfortunately - praps then I'd understand it ! ) but there seems to be no coherence to it at all - any chance of your being a little more lucid ?
smileative wrote:
I hasn't even got close to my FIDE number on this site - hmmmm - wonder if it's cos I playin' on my own or often in a hurry - suspect it cos half the time I is playin' engines - how does u factor that into understandin' 'ratings' - or as I prefer 'numbers' ???
I'd happily play anyone on this site OTB for money - except Natalie - I think she too good for me
GM Becerra would be a tough nut to crack as well, naturally.
One reason I respect OTB numbers more and find them more meaningful, apart from the online cheating aspect, is that I believe that a greater percentage of OTBers are giving it their all at the board while here for Live and turn-based the population is all over the place, moving quickly and while eating and getting drunk (have been guilty of beer and blitz myself--but why not it's just online play). Just overall more casual.
For OTB tournaments, one may have played hundreds of games over many years. It always has felt to me a special place and time, and I have always been serious at the board. I think that's pretty typical for adult players.
For online play people typically have played thousands of games, and tens of thousands is a normal number. I know I have cared less about online chess. After all, there are as many as we want, anytime we want, and rated too.
interesting comment from someone who's a computer programmer, only played 2 dozen odd games, an' is already 400 pts over his USCF number - glad I didn't have to play you in a tourney
Sorry - was referring to jempty's post
an' goldendog, I'd come to the same conclusion myself
I started playing on-line. then joined a chess club.
I do prefer OTB play. Casual club games are a real mentoring expirience for me-the stronger players are quite willing to play, point out my mistakes, explore alternate lines... You don't get this close on-line.
Tournament (I've only played rapid so far, but I'm planning to squeeze in an evening tournament with long time controls) play isn't mentoring, but I do like it more than on-line. I can see the person, and the result is far more important to me.
The 3d view helps me as well, and I try harder, so I play better OTB.
But live and correspondence have one selling factor-convinience. I choose the time, I don't have to travel to the club...