Ruy Lopez h3
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How come it is advised to move h3 in response to d6 but one move after black can play Bg4 pinning the f3 knight? Why is white giving black one move to to do exactly that in theory? I have been trying to find a refutation but to no avail. Thanks for any answers.
Hello Mods. Would you please move this thread to openings? Cheers
after Bg4...if white is castled and plays h3 black can play h5...capturing the bishop will result in an open h file for black and not so much fun for white😜 i think this was your question?lol
masterfowler wrote:
Sorry my bad. My question is that after d6 to open up the diagonal for the bishop white only plays h3 2moves later instead of right away. why?
after Bg4...if white is castled and plays h3 black can play h5...capturing the bishop will result in an open h file for black and not so much fun for white😜 i think this was your question?lol
Feb 17, 2017
0
#5
I think you are getting it wrong.
Black is by no means threatening Bg4 if White hasn't played d4. It is well known that early Bg4s should be answered with d3 to blunt the bishop. Then White plays h3 and against Bh5 (Bd7 or something in that fashion should be the best so your bishop isn't blunted.) continues with Nbd2-Nf1-Ng3-Nh4 and plants a knight on f5.
When White plays d4 Black now does threaten Bg4 because there is no d3 to defend the pawn and blunt the bishop and Black is already threatening to win material so there is no time to maneuver. That is why White plays h3, to play d4, not to defend against Bg4 which is harmless if White has his pawn on d2.
Neil McDonald treats this stuff in his wonderful book. The Ruy Lopez move by move.
I hope this will be helpful to you. I invite everyone to question my comment, I may be wrong. Hopefully a strong player will pass by.
Thanks Che for the answer. John Nunn states in Understanding chess move by move that white will have to give concessions if he doesn't prevent Bg4. Albeit, he doesn't say which ones. I think it may have to do with setting up the pawn center. Aaaaaaand back to the drawing board...ehh....chessboard, sorry☺
ChePlaSsYer wrote:
Alright mate? Have you read that book? Is it a good first book on the Ruy?
I think you are getting it wrong.
Black is by no means threatening Bg4 if White hasn't played d4. It is well known that early Bg4s should be answered with d3 to blunt the bishop. Then White plays h3 and against Bh5 (Bd7 or something in that fashion should be the best so your bishop isn't blunted.) continues with Nbd2-Nf1-Ng3-Nh4 and plants a knight on f5.
When White plays d4 Black now does threaten Bg4 because there is no d3 to defend the pawn and blunt the bishop and Black is already threatening to win material so there is no time to maneuver. That is why White plays h3, to play d4, not to defend against Bg4 which is harmless if White has his pawn on d2.
Neil McDonald treats this stuff in his wonderful book. The Ruy Lopez move by move.
I hope this will be helpful to you. I invite everyone to question my comment, I may be wrong. Hopefully a strong player will pass by.
Feb 17, 2017
0
#8
Yes, I red it. It is a great book, I like how Neil McDonald wrote it, it is as if you had a coach sitting in front of you.
The best part is that it gives a Ruy Lopez Repertoire for mortals like us that avoids a lot of theory.
Feb 17, 2017
0
#9
http://www.365chess.com/game.php?back=1&gid=363856&m=21
here is an interesting game to look at in that variation, where white is constantly pressured but finds a way
Feb 17, 2017
0
#10
universityofpawns wrote:
http://www.365chess.com/game.php?back=1&gid=363856&m=21
here is an interesting game to look at in that variation, where white is constantly pressured but finds a way
I think 7.d3 was not a good move. 7.c3 avoids Nd4 which seems to be the thing that caused problems to White.
Thanks a lot, mucho appreciated. I'm looking for a Ruy book so Ill go with your rec. These watets are so deep 😅
Feb 17, 2017
0
#12
I'd suggest going over the Ruy Lopez mainline move by move to learn the reasoning behind each move, as there are concrete reasons that the moves are played in the order they are. This can help your understanding of other openings as well. My quick summary:
1.e4 = Best by test. 
...e5 = Match white in development options/influence over d4 square
2.Nf3 = Attack e5 pawn/prepare castling
...Nc6 = Defend e5 pawn/develop a piece
3.Bb5 = Indirectly continue attack on e5 pawn/prepare castling
...a6 = Force white to decide on where LSB is going(exchange or retreat)/prepare eventual ...b5 for queenside space
4.Ba4 = Maintain tension on e5 pawn/Keep LSB on the board
...Nf6 =Develop a piece/prepare castling/attack e4 pawn
5.0-0 = King safety/Prepare rook development/indirectly protect e4 pawn with d4/Re1 moves in future
...Be7 =Develop piece to ideal square(Bc5 playable but allows white to play d4 with tempo)/prepare castling/block potentially open e-file influence on black king
6.Re1 = Develop rook/Renew threat on e5 pawn as white's e4 pawn is now protected.
...b5 = Kick LSB/Defend e5 pawn/Gain queenside space
7.Bb3 = Only move.
...d6 = Protect e5 pawn/free knight to attack LSB on b3/give development options for black LSB with either c8-a6 diagonal or c8-h3 diagonal
8.c3 = Allows LSB to go to c2 should black play ...Na5 (preparing his own ...c5 push)/control d4 square to prevent early exchange of pieces with ...Nd4/prepare d4 push
...0-0 = King safety/Allows rook development to e8 and frees f8 square for DSB, allowing black to fight for e-file
9.h3 = Final preparatory move for d4 push that prevents Bg4 response/Trusty escape square for King
And then from there you go to Zaitsev/Breyer/Chigorin/Smyslov/etc etc etc! One of the coolest tabiyas in all of chess, everyone should at least play one side of the Ruy.
The Ruy Lopez: Move by Move by Neil McDonald (2011)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627022042/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen153.pdf
Fixing_A_Hole wrote:
Thanks Fixing. I'm going through that tonight, and then I'll have myself some Ruy's.
I'd suggest going over the Ruy Lopez mainline move by move to learn the reasoning behind each move, as there are concrete reasons that the moves are played in the order they are. This can help your understanding of other openings as well. My quick summary:
1.e4 = Best by test.
...e5 = Match white in development options/influence over d4 square
2.Nf3 = Attack e5 pawn/prepare castling
...Nc6 = Defend e5 pawn/develop a piece
3.Bb5 = Indirectly continue attack on e5 pawn/prepare castling
...a6 = Force white to decide on where LSB is going(exchange or retreat)/prepare eventual ...b5 for queenside space
4.Ba4 = Maintain tension on e5 pawn/Keep LSB on the board
...Nf6 =Develop a piece/prepare castling/attack e4 pawn
5.0-0 = King safety/Prepare rook development/indirectly protect e4 pawn with d4/Re1 moves in future
...Be7 =Develop piece to ideal square(Bc5 playable but allows white to play d4 with tempo)/prepare castling/block potentially open e-file influence on black king
6.Re1 = Develop rook/Renew threat on e5 pawn as white's e4 pawn is now protected.
...b5 = Kick LSB/Defend e5 pawn/Gain queenside space
7.Bb3 = Only move.
...d6 = Protect e5 pawn/free knight to attack LSB on b3/give development options for black LSB with either c8-a6 diagonal or c8-h3 diagonal
8.c3 = Allows LSB to go to c2 should black play ...Na5 (preparing his own ...c5 push)/control d4 square to prevent early exchange of pieces with ...Nd4/prepare d4 push
...0-0 = King safety/Allows rook development to e8 and frees f8 square for DSB, allowing black to fight for e-file
9.h3 = Final preparatory move for d4 push that prevents Bg4 response/Trusty escape square for King
And then from there you go to Zaitsev/Breyer/Chigorin/Smyslov/etc etc etc! One of the coolest tabiyas in all of chess, everyone should at least play one side of the Ruy.
Feb 18, 2017
0
#15
I would answer this question, but my only answer is that the above answers are totally correct.
Fixing_A_Hole wrote:
Quick question:Why does black not play 8...Bg4 and then 9...0-0?
I'd suggest going over the Ruy Lopez mainline move by move to learn the reasoning behind each move, as there are concrete reasons that the moves are played in the order they are. This can help your understanding of other openings as well. My quick summary:
1.e4 = Best by test.
...e5 = Match white in development options/influence over d4 square
2.Nf3 = Attack e5 pawn/prepare castling
...Nc6 = Defend e5 pawn/develop a piece
3.Bb5 = Indirectly continue attack on e5 pawn/prepare castling
...a6 = Force white to decide on where LSB is going(exchange or retreat)/prepare eventual ...b5 for queenside space
4.Ba4 = Maintain tension on e5 pawn/Keep LSB on the board
...Nf6 =Develop a piece/prepare castling/attack e4 pawn
5.0-0 = King safety/Prepare rook development/indirectly protect e4 pawn with d4/Re1 moves in future
...Be7 =Develop piece to ideal square(Bc5 playable but allows white to play d4 with tempo)/prepare castling/block potentially open e-file influence on black king
6.Re1 = Develop rook/Renew threat on e5 pawn as white's e4 pawn is now protected.
...b5 = Kick LSB/Defend e5 pawn/Gain queenside space
7.Bb3 = Only move.
...d6 = Protect e5 pawn/free knight to attack LSB on b3/give development options for black LSB with either c8-a6 diagonal or c8-h3 diagonal
8.c3 = Allows LSB to go to c2 should black play ...Na5 (preparing his own ...c5 push)/control d4 square to prevent early exchange of pieces with ...Nd4/prepare d4 push
...0-0 = King safety/Allows rook development to e8 and frees f8 square for DSB, allowing black to fight for e-file
9.h3 = Final preparatory move for d4 push that prevents Bg4 response/Trusty escape square for King
And then from there you go to Zaitsev/Breyer/Chigorin/Smyslov/etc etc etc! One of the coolest tabiyas in all of chess, everyone should at least play one side of the Ruy.
Feb 23, 2017
0
#17
sparxs wrote:
Fixing_A_Hole wrote:
I'd suggest going over the Ruy Lopez mainline move by move to learn the reasoning behind each move, as there are concrete reasons that the moves are played in the order they are. This can help your understanding of other openings as well. My quick summary:
1.e4 = Best by test.
...e5 = Match white in development options/influence over d4 square
2.Nf3 = Attack e5 pawn/prepare castling
...Nc6 = Defend e5 pawn/develop a piece
3.Bb5 = Indirectly continue attack on e5 pawn/prepare castling
...a6 = Force white to decide on where LSB is going(exchange or retreat)/prepare eventual ...b5 for queenside space
4.Ba4 = Maintain tension on e5 pawn/Keep LSB on the board
...Nf6 =Develop a piece/prepare castling/attack e4 pawn
5.0-0 = King safety/Prepare rook development/indirectly protect e4 pawn with d4/Re1 moves in future
...Be7 =Develop piece to ideal square(Bc5 playable but allows white to play d4 with tempo)/prepare castling/block potentially open e-file influence on black king
6.Re1 = Develop rook/Renew threat on e5 pawn as white's e4 pawn is now protected.
...b5 = Kick LSB/Defend e5 pawn/Gain queenside space
7.Bb3 = Only move.
...d6 = Protect e5 pawn/free knight to attack LSB on b3/give development options for black LSB with either c8-a6 diagonal or c8-h3 diagonal
8.c3 = Allows LSB to go to c2 should black play ...Na5 (preparing his own ...c5 push)/control d4 square to prevent early exchange of pieces with ...Nd4/prepare d4 push
...0-0 = King safety/Allows rook development to e8 and frees f8 square for DSB, allowing black to fight for e-file
9.h3 = Final preparatory move for d4 push that prevents Bg4 response/Trusty escape square for King
And then from there you go to Zaitsev/Breyer/Chigorin/Smyslov/etc etc etc! One of the coolest tabiyas in all of chess, everyone should at least play one side of the Ruy.
Quick question:Why does black not play 8...Bg4 and then 9...0-0?
8...Bg4 is a completely viable move and when a different move order is used, sometimes this (or similar) positions are reached.
However in response to 8...Bg4 white can abandon plans for a quick d4 by playing 9.d3 when the g4 bishop is a little misplaced. White only plays 9.h3 because if he played d4 first, then after 9...Bg4 it's too late to go back. Which is to say, he doesn't play h3 because Bg4 is a good all around move.
As stated above... There is no reason to play Bg4 until d4 is played. Bg4 can be calmly met by d3, than h3, and if Bh5 nbd2-f1-G3 Nh4 and a knight on f5 is very strong.
Thank you very much.