Tiger's Modern

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DanielGuel

Hello, everyone. I have a student who plays the Modern setup (1. e4, g6 2. d4, Bg7, 3. Nc3, d6 etc...). He has the book on Tiger's Modern, and we plan to go through the book together, though is that something you would recommend to the student, as well as me the coach? My student is rated about 1300-1350.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQkcbMMttElLKcLTMecs1oUXUj0I0XJOwvInwRKISzvkDeJyWKO

If anyone who has actually read this book has any insightful wisdom on how we should study this, please feel free to share here. wink.png

DanielGuel

Haha, the image does not show! I can't download an image of the book. My trackpad does not have right click, and my mouse is missing! sad.png

 

https://www.amazon.com/Tigers-Modern-Tiger-Hillarp-Persson/dp/9197524360

 

DanielGuel

@MiddleGamerUmesh, funny story. I introduced him to the a6 variation, and he was not impressed! He wanted to play 4... Nc6, though I explained that Nc6 is bad because White wrecks havoc with d5 and f4. He now plays a6 to please me. happy.png

 

Thanks for your reply, @Zeitnot17

cjxchess17

Let him play more e4 e5 openings. Modern defense require a lot of positional and tactical knowledge and 1300-1350 is probably not going to be prepared for that. (Although if he's playing just for fun, any opening would work.)

DanielGuel

He chose to play the Modern (as well as 1. g3 with White), so I want him to stick with what he has been playing. happy.png

GoodKnight0BadBishop

Many modern defense lines lead to a King's Indian Defense setup. 

Like this:

So he may need to study that as well. 

cjxchess17
EOGuel wrote:

He chose to play the Modern (as well as 1. g3 with White), so I want him to stick with what he has been playing.

These type of openings are only worth to learn once your student reaches the 1800 level, since these types of openings contains very complex ideas that you might not even fully understand. I can say that because I have played many U1600 players who tried hypermoderns (mostly Grunfeld), and I can summarize their play style in one word: bad.

cjxchess17

Of course, if your student is willing to commit 4 hours a day and 7 days a week of studying chess, any decent opening would work, and if he just want to play for fun, anything ranging from e4 to g4 will work.

DanielGuel
MiddlegamerUmesh wrote:

Does he have a chess.com account? He could actively participate in discussions like this

LOL, there is a reason I didn't give his name... I don't call out my students unless they want me to or give permission. He may or may not join the discussion... I'm not particularly going to invite him. wink.png

DanielGuel
cjxchess17 wrote:
EOGuel wrote:

He chose to play the Modern (as well as 1. g3 with White), so I want him to stick with what he has been playing.

These type of openings are only worth to learn once your student reaches the 1800 level, since these types of openings contains very complex ideas that you might not even fully understand. I can say that because I have played many U1600 players who tried hypermoderns (mostly Grunfeld), and I can summarize their play style in one word: bad.

IMHO, openings should not be classified by rating, as any opening is playable with knowledge of the ideas, theory, and understanding that there is risk to the opening. I think it's worth refraining from the useless shenanigans on what openings to play or not, and stick to the original discussion. happy.png

cjxchess17
EOGuel wrote:
cjxchess17 wrote:
EOGuel wrote:

He chose to play the Modern (as well as 1. g3 with White), so I want him to stick with what he has been playing.

These type of openings are only worth to learn once your student reaches the 1800 level, since these types of openings contains very complex ideas that you might not even fully understand. I can say that because I have played many U1600 players who tried hypermoderns (mostly Grunfeld), and I can summarize their play style in one word: bad.

IMHO, openings should not be classified by rating, as any opening is playable with knowledge of the ideas, theory, and understanding that there is risk to the opening. I think it's worth refraining from the useless shenanigans on what openings to play or not, and stick to the original discussion.

While, if you are going teach them these sort of openings, that is your choice. But I will tell you that the easiest openings for low rated players to learn is e4 for white and e5 against e4 for black (d5 and QGD against d4). Any experienced coach knows that openings like g6, Bg7, d6, are just going to get low-rated students into passive positions, and when they lose such games, they will tell you how their opponent played h2-h4-h5, opened up the h-file and did a series of sacs that they obviously missed and checkmated them out of nowhere, and you will tell them to work on tactics, even though the mistake that caused them to lose already happened before move 10 and the tactic is all due to the fact that their position has no counter play whatsoever. And guess what? It's all due to the opening! (And reading a opening book will not help - they might know that they should go for ...a6 and ...b5 to create counter play on the queenside...and wait, what is counter play again? Or they will just get bored very quickly by the complexity of the ideas in the opening before they get the slightest grip on it, and when they finally realized that e5 is the way to go, nearly a year has already passed and wait...what is that opening called again?

But of course, if they want to just play for fun, any opening would work. In fact, g4 would probably spice up more complications then g3 does.

BL4D3RUNN3R

Guess it’s too tough. A very complex „complex“. I use it time and again.

VLaurenT
EOGuel wrote:

Hello, everyone. I have a student who plays the Modern setup (1. e4, g6 2. d4, Bg7, 3. Nc3, d6 etc...). He has the book on Tiger's Modern, and we plan to go through the book together, though is that something you would recommend to the student, as well as me the coach? My student is rated about 1300-1350.

 

 

 

If anyone who has actually read this book has any insightful wisdom on how we should study this, please feel free to share here.

 

I think it's not a very good opening choice for a 1300-rated player. Because of the large number of different pawn structures, an inexperienced student will quickly get lost in the intricacies of the opening. Besides, the classical opening guidelines don't apply.

My recommendation if you stick to this choice is to be very patient and accept that he may need a couple of years to get a grip of his opening. Tiger's book is good though.

andrewnox

It's also a good idea to pickup the recently released video course Double Tuition on the Modern from GingerGM. It's not expensive, it's really interesting - Tiger explains the ideas really well, and even improves on a few lines he mentions in his book. Worth watching as a primer, if nothing else. It's on GingerGM's store and the iChess store.

DanielGuel

We had an IM over for a simul, and my student played 1... g6 against him. The IM analyzed with him afterward, and I never heard any "Don't play this..." from him. He even recommended Tiger's Modern. As helpful as you all are, we're probably going to stick to our gameplan, as I know he has played this system all of this life even before I started coaching him. wink.png

GoodKnight0BadBishop
EOGuel wrote:

We had an IM over for a simul, and my student played 1... g6 against him. The IM analyzed with him afterward, and I never heard any "Don't play this..." from him. He even recommended Tiger's Modern. As helpful as you all are, we're probably going to stick to our gameplan, as I know he has played this system all of this life even before I started coaching him.

An IM! Who?

BL4D3RUNN3R

To speak bluntly: it is too demanding. Too many positional dead-ends, positions where you have to burn the bridges, theory skirmishes. You can’t learn the tome by heart, 400 pages or even more? It is no „system“. But if you know better, go on. I struggle in many lines, complicated stuff.

DanielGuel
GoodKnight0BadBishop wrote:
EOGuel wrote:

We had an IM over for a simul, and my student played 1... g6 against him. The IM analyzed with him afterward, and I never heard any "Don't play this..." from him. He even recommended Tiger's Modern. As helpful as you all are, we're probably going to stick to our gameplan, as I know he has played this system all of this life even before I started coaching him.

An IM! Who?

IM Zura Javakhadze happy.png

GoodKnight0BadBishop
EOGuel wrote:
GoodKnight0BadBishop wrote:
EOGuel wrote:

We had an IM over for a simul, and my student played 1... g6 against him. The IM analyzed with him afterward, and I never heard any "Don't play this..." from him. He even recommended Tiger's Modern. As helpful as you all are, we're probably going to stick to our gameplan, as I know he has played this system all of this life even before I started coaching him.

An IM! Who?

IM Zura Javakhadze

Yeah.  I know him. I used to see him in the Dallas Chess Club FIDE tournaments. He is like 2500 something. 

DanielGuel

Yes. Cool guy. happy.png