Too old to start chess?

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AnastasiaStyles
snGus wrote:

Or maybe I'm really too old?


A med student at a university is rushing, because he is late for a lecture. In his hurry, he crashes into an old man and nearly knocks him over.

"Sorry Professor!", says the hurrying student, embarrassed. "I'm late for my lecture, I didn't mean to crash into you like that".

"No worries, no harm done", says the old man. "But I'm not a professor, I'm just a student like you"

"Really?", says the young student, surprised.

"Yes, in fact, I think we're late for the same lecture; I'm a medical student, I think you are too?"

"I am, yes, but... no offence, but you must be how old, 70 at least?"

"85", replies the old man. "I always wanted to be a doctor, and now I'm finally working to realise my dream"

"But... in five years time, you'll be 90! Again, no offence intended, but isn't this a rather late career move?"

"In five years time", he replies, "god willing, I'll be 90 regardless of whether I study medicine or not - if I can't pursue my dream now, when can I?"

Arctor
uhohspaghettio wrote:
AndTheLittleOneSaid wrote:
Vulpesvictor wrote: 

Please elaborate; what IS the point of chess if not improvement?


How about enjoyment?


Exactly.

On another note: Why do people assume that the better a person is at something the more they enjoy it? For example, the reason Fischer, Morphy and some others gave up chess is because they just didn't like it anymore. Meanwhile there are others who are terrible but can't get enough of it.

There's no direct reason why a person who is better should like it more. If that were the case Kasparov would never stop playing while people who are below 2000 would never get obsessed. Of course a person who doesn't like something or are passionate about it they usually won't be interested in it enough to reach a very high level.


 Is it not logical to assume that those willing to devote the time required to become a better player must enjoy the game a lot?

Lot's of people stop playing organised chess because they don't like organised chess or know they can make more money doing something else...not because they don't like chess

Roma60

just enjoy one day you may have wife and kids then will not have time for chess.

AnastasiaStyles
Roma60 wrote:

just enjoy one day you may have wife and kids then will not have time for chess.


I have a wife and son and am glad I a) have the mobile app b) can play for a bit while they are asleep and I am mostly working but also come here for recreation :)

Roma60

dave wait till you got 5 kid and 3 grand kids.

PUMAPRIDE

well the point is at least your stimulate important regions of your brain. wich is verry good if you grow...

AnastasiaStyles
Roma60 wrote:

dave wait till you got 5 kid and 3 grand kids.


Not gonna happen. Can't speak for the grand-kids, but one child is enough for me!

Roma60

good luck dave with family and chess one day you and wife might want bigger family think of all that fun teaching them how to play chess.

PUMAPRIDE
uhohspaghettio wrote:
AndTheLittleOneSaid wrote:
Vulpesvictor wrote: 

Please elaborate; what IS the point of chess if not improvement?


How about enjoyment?


Exactly.

On another note: Why do people assume that the better a person is at something the more they enjoy it? For example, the reason Fischer, Morphy and some others gave up chess is because they just didn't like it anymore. Meanwhile there are others who are terrible but can't get enough of it.

There's no direct reason why a person who is better should like it more. If that were the case Kasparov would never stop playing while people who are below 2000 would never get obsessed. Of course a person who doesn't like something or are passionate about it they usually won't be interested in it enough to reach a very high level. 


First thats indeed completly incorrect, you cant just make something up and claim it as fact. First they stole the title from Fischer, because he demanded something Karpov would get with ease later, secondly he got a million interviews and not 1 person asked him an important question, wich would make the entire chess world benefit from his far superior knowledge and Morphy probably was angry because he couldnt beat staunton.

The better i get the more it makes fun for me, in everything i do ,the better i get the more it makes fun. hey i dont talk winning, i hate it when people lose to me on purpose all the time, i mean when i can see how i grow better and stronger and i really believe there is anyone who thought otherwise. josh waitzking laughed chess till he didnt get stronger and people beat him all the time. 

I think for everyone its the same, the better you get the more fun it makes... reading the wall street journal is no fun at least you are good in knowing the markets. watching business isnt fun if you arent a good business man. I seriously believe from the bottom of my hard that everything we do, we enjoy more the better we are in it.

AnastasiaStyles
Roma60 wrote:

good luck dave with family and chess one day you and wife might want bigger family think of all that fun teaching them how to play chess.


Still not convinced, but thank you :)

AnastasiaStyles
WellRead wrote:

 

Twenty-four is too old to pick up chess despite the well-wishers here urging you on.

You cannot know this. You can assume it from inductive reasoning, but inductive reasoning is pretty lousy.

By the time person is twelve, their brain capacity is at its maximum

Wrong. Because of the way information is stored, the brain does not have any known maximum capacity; the patterns simply get more complex, that's all.

and by 24 you are now in decline.

Again, you cannot know this (and it's rather unlikely to be true). His brain will now be in decline only if he is subject to some degenerative brain disease, or if he is abusing it horrendously (such as through harmful substance abuse, physical trauma, or chronic dehydration).

I am 48 and cannot play chess anywhere near what I could years ago.

Induction is not deduction. Your loss in ability does not have to be his.

Yet, I know more theory than most IM's, FM's, and NM's.

Yet, you are none of the above. Were you before? What happened? Other people have maintained their skills later in life.

The other reason you should spend you time elsewhere is because your opponents will not be jovial and civilized as I am

Telling someone to go away is neither jovial nor civilised.

but for the most part, uncouth, ill mannered, sly, and wanting in hygiene.

Naturally, I can't comment on your hygiene.

Finally, how do you plan to learn the game? Do you have any idea how complex chess is? There are more possible moves in a game of chess than there are atoms in the universe, and you, you think at 24 you're going to learn to play well?

Your patronising tone is disgusting.

24 is 24 years younger than you, and 12 years more than 12. He's therefore twice as near to 12 as he is to your age. If a 12 year-old can start learning chess at that age and be pretty good by age 24, then a 24 year-old can start learning chess and be twice as good as that 24 year-old who started aged 12, by the time he is your age, 48.

And that is not taking into account the fact that chess skill is in large part a matter of analogy and pattern recognition, something that people will tend to be better at the older they get.

You are, in short, arguing from induction and rhetoric rather than deduction and rationality. You are making an emotional case, so that you can feel better about yourself. If you can believe your own poor logic, then you can rest easy that it's not your fault your chess skills are not better than they are after all these years. Well, believe it and rest easy. But don't put down others trying to do what you could not.

RichColorado

I just taught a 82 year old senior the beginnings of chess. He can now move the pieces and has learned how to castle and the ways to check and mate.

His succesful goal is just to check me at least once.

See and you are only 24 years old.

I wish I was 24 and just beginning. I am 73 doing the teaching to people.

I have 52 students from 10 to 12 years old every Tuesday and Thursday.

If you like it, play it like nobody is watching.

By the way the only person that really cares is yourself.

 

jesterville

...personally, I only began taking the game seriouly over the past 2 years...and I love it...don't have a whole lot of time myself...business, family, charity etc...but I try to keep up as best I can...

...all depends on your objective...what do you want out of the game? GM status? Career?...or just to be a good player who can understand what the pros are doing in a game...and improve as you go along...

...no limits to chess...only what you impose on yourself...

BTW chess for me is a hobby...I'm successful in other areas...and just play and learn when I can...and this is a great mix for me...If chess is not your career, then there's a "real world" out there for you to discover...

All the Best...

Alex_Williams1
DavidStyles wrote:
snGus wrote:

Or maybe I'm really too old?


A med student at a university is rushing, because he is late for a lecture. In his hurry, he crashes into an old man and nearly knocks him over.

"Sorry Professor!", says the hurrying student, embarrassed. "I'm late for my lecture, I didn't mean to crash into you like that".

"No worries, no harm done", says the old man. "But I'm not a professor, I'm just a student like you"

"Really?", says the young student, surprised.

"Yes, in fact, I think we're late for the same lecture; I'm a medical student, I think you are too?"

"I am, yes, but... no offence, but you must be how old, 70 at least?"

"85", replies the old man. "I always wanted to be a doctor, and now I'm finally working to realise my dream"

"But... in five years time, you'll be 90! Again, no offence intended, but isn't this a rather late career move?"

"In five years time", he replies, "god willing, I'll be 90 regardless of whether I study medicine or not - if I can't pursue my dream now, when can I?"


Wow! Inspiring!!! But, surely it is a made up story. Right? Or is it true by any chance? Smile

AnastasiaStyles
sekhar1 wrote:
DavidStyles wrote:
snGus wrote:

Or maybe I'm really too old?


A med student at a university is rushing, because he is late for a lecture. In his hurry, he crashes into an old man and nearly knocks him over.

"Sorry Professor!", says the hurrying student, embarrassed. "I'm late for my lecture, I didn't mean to crash into you like that".

"No worries, no harm done", says the old man. "But I'm not a professor, I'm just a student like you"

"Really?", says the young student, surprised.

"Yes, in fact, I think we're late for the same lecture; I'm a medical student, I think you are too?"

"I am, yes, but... no offence, but you must be how old, 70 at least?"

"85", replies the old man. "I always wanted to be a doctor, and now I'm finally working to realise my dream"

"But... in five years time, you'll be 90! Again, no offence intended, but isn't this a rather late career move?"

"In five years time", he replies, "god willing, I'll be 90 regardless of whether I study medicine or not - if I can't pursue my dream now, when can I?"


Wow! Inspiring!!! But, surely it is a made up story. Right? Or is it true by any chance? 


As far as I'm aware, it is a made up story, yes. But the underlying point remains!

That said, I can think of people who have started something at such ages and become good at it, but I like the above example; even if allegorical, it is pleasantly clear :)

gustavoSNog
Skwerly wrote:

if you play enough, i think improvement is a natural biproduct. i guess some folks just make the same exact mistakes 30 times in a row and wonder why they keep losing, but i think most of us say to ourselves, "ah. noted.  in this line, pushing that pawn is NOT good," or whatever have ya. 

even if someone hated piano, i would think it would be impossible not to improve if they play all the time.  just literally unavoidable.


Thanks to Chess.com I can play every time I got free time. This is a good thing.

But I wonder if simply playing a lot will bring to a reasonably improvement. I've been searching for books and softwares to help me and I came to 2 conclusions:

  1. A book would be useful for me for strategy and/or to correct the way I think within a chess game. But so far I haven't realized how a book can help me in tactics because it involves situations and there can be infinite sorts of situations and thus a software for training random and numerous situations and the best tactics I could use on each of them would be a better option.
  2. It would be wonderful if there was a software in which I could load my recorded games and get a list of all the mistakes I made and all the times I did not perform the best move and why. This may seem asking for too much but the thing is that I, as a lamer, simply can’t detect some mistakes and best moves I missed in a game by myself. Off course there are times I realize my mistake right after performing it, but some mistakes and some important moves I missed I still have not what it takes to detect and so I keep repeating these mistakes. I think a good way to improve is to know my limitations and I know such limitations make me unable to detect all my mistakes. But I know I perform these undetected mistakes simply because I loose against more experienced players.

Because I love chess I know I will play it a lot and for many years. But the two tools pointed above---a book for strategy and a software for spotting mistakes and missed opportunities---would be crucial for my improvement.

But, as I said, I haven’t find such tools. The best I found so far is the Chessmaster XI software whose Academy section gave me precious lessons. But learning these lessons is one thing. Applying its concepts in an actual game is another. When I am within an actual game I try to follow the concepts I learned but my opponent will put an end at it. They just don’t let me LoL :)

gustavoSNog
WellRead wrote:

Twenty-four is too old to pick up chess despite the well-wishers here urging you on. It's not their ego that will be decimated, but yours. By the time person is twelve, their brain capacity is at its maximum and by 24 you are now in decline. I am 48 and cannot play chess anywhere near what I could years ago. Yet, I know more theory than most IM's, FM's, and NM's. The other reason you should spend you time elsewhere is because your opponents will not be jovial and civilized as I am, but for the most part, uncouth, ill mannered, sly, and wanting in hygiene. Finally, how do you plan to learn the game? Do you have any idea how complex chess is? There are more possible moves in a game of chess than there are atoms in the universe, and you, you think at 24 you're going to learn to play well?

I know my words hurt. That is not my intent. It's just that when I see threads like this, all the lemmings rush in and encourage you and for what? So you can invest thousand of hours in a dying game? In a sport full of sly, and coy, and rude people? No, don't do it. Spend time with your family, read the Wall Street Journal, take your kids to a ballgame, but 24 is way too old to pick up chess.

Advisably yours,

Haywood


It's interesting that someone would tell me that. Anyway, as for the brain's progressive loss of capacity, so is it true, then? I'd like to read about it. I want to know from a reliable site recommendations to brain usage such as for playing chess.

I know how complex chess is.

How old were you when you startet it?

gustavoSNog
[COMMENT DELETED]
gustavoSNog
PUMAPRIDE wrote:
uhohspaghettio wrote:
AndTheLittleOneSaid wrote:
Vulpesvictor wrote: 

Please elaborate; what IS the point of chess if not improvement?


How about enjoyment?


Exactly.

On another note: Why do people assume that the better a person is at something the more they enjoy it? For example, the reason Fischer, Morphy and some others gave up chess is because they just didn't like it anymore. Meanwhile there are others who are terrible but can't get enough of it.

There's no direct reason why a person who is better should like it more. If that were the case Kasparov would never stop playing while people who are below 2000 would never get obsessed. Of course a person who doesn't like something or are passionate about it they usually won't be interested in it enough to reach a very high level. 


First thats indeed completly incorrect, you cant just make something up and claim it as fact. First they stole the title from Fischer, because he demanded something Karpov would get with ease later, secondly he got a million interviews and not 1 person asked him an important question, wich would make the entire chess world benefit from his far superior knowledge and Morphy probably was angry because he couldnt beat staunton.

The better i get the more it makes fun for me, in everything i do ,the better i get the more it makes fun. hey i dont talk winning, i hate it when people lose to me on purpose all the time, i mean when i can see how i grow better and stronger and i really believe there is anyone who thought otherwise. josh waitzking laughed chess till he didnt get stronger and people beat him all the time. 

I think for everyone its the same, the better you get the more fun it makes... reading the wall street journal is no fun at least you are good in knowing the markets. watching business isnt fun if you arent a good business man. I seriously believe from the bottom of my hard that everything we do, we enjoy more the better we are in it.


I agree. The better you get at something the more you'll like it. It's not only in chess.

Skwerly

yea, i didn't mean you'd become a GM just by playing, haha.  external study really is necessary to get decent, but simply playing a lot of (slow...) games will gain invaluable experience and in turn teach ya stuff.  :)  good points.