How can this be a draw?
White ran out of time as soon as Black captures Rook x Knight the game is over, Black wins.
But there is the art. 9.7: "game is a draw when reached a position where isn't possible to checkmate by any possible combination of legal moves". White ran out of time, but black can't checkmate either.
How can this be a draw?
Read the rules. They are all posted in this thread.
@Pulpofeira: Where did you do this test? Was it an online thing, or something that you had to attend in person?
@Pulpofeira: Where did you do this test? Was it an online thing, or something that you had to attend in person?
Both. It was a FEDA course for basic chess instructor.
White loses. White did not complete his move by hitting the clock!
heres an interesting thought.....in the effort to save time, could white just have grabbed the pawn and hit their clock? and not move either knight to the square...
White loses. White did not complete his move by hitting the clock!
ok in effort to answer my question above i found good information:
to "complete" a move, the clock does not need to be hit - Article 4.7
also, the flag hasnt fallen until it is observed and claimed by the oppenent or TD. Art 6.8. Since it says the player "ran out of time" but nothing about it actually being claimed, move is complete.
Faded :P
Im also confuse with these rules. First white expires his time (art.6.1.) There is no mate after black rook takes the knight at c7 square and it would take 4 moves to mate the black king thus, expiration of time ends the game. The white player cannot force the black player to make a move cause his time expires. I don't agree with the decision of draw here. It should be a win for black (0-1). Feel free to comment for correction.
. I don't agree with the decision of draw here.
White made a legal move Ndxc7+, then immediately ran out of time.
FIDE article 6.9 is clear that to win on time, black must be able to demonstrate that should the game have continued, he would be able to checkmate white "by any series of legal moves". The ONLY legal moves (they are ALL forced), should the game have continued are :
2. ................Rxc7+
3. Nxc7+ Rxc7+
4. Kxc7+#
Thus black is unable to satisfy the requirements of art. 6.9 and the result is a draw.
I am sorry but I still dont get it. White time expires and white cannot force black to make a move. White in either way must not make a move cause he already expires his time. How about this, white has 5 queens and black has only a pawn. Suddenly before he makes a move he saw white flagdown. Is this still a draw when neither player don't claim a draw? Hope anyone answer me correctly. Thanks!
I am sorry but I still dont get it. White time expires and white cannot force black to make a move. White in either way must not make a move cause he already expires his time. How about this, white has 5 queens and black has only a pawn. Suddenly before he makes a move he saw white flagdown. Is this still a draw when neither player don't claim a draw? Hope anyone answer me correctly. Thanks!
If that pawn in any way can become a queen/rook, then no, not a draw, because there is a legal combinations of moves that can lead to mate.
This is the same thing. White does not have enough time to win, but Black does not have the moves to win. Draw.
FIDE article 6.9....just look it up.
As a USCF Tournament Director I can confirm that if the clock ran out, the player who ran out of time loses. According to USCF rule 14H, if there is less than two minutes on the clock. a player running out of time can stop the clock BEFORE IT RUNS OUT OF TIME, summon the Tournament Director (Arbiter), and if he can demonstrate that he has no losing chances he can request a Draw, which shall be awarded to him if the TD/Arbiter agrees there are no losing chances.
EXCLUSION: the player cannot use this procedure to request a draw if a clock with a delay or increment per move is being used.
Those asking how it can be a loss when Black has no winning chances forget that the decision rests squarely on the players recognizing that fact before the clock runs out and we have no proof they recognized it. They alone must recognize, they alone must observe when the flag falls - no outside help. If White recognized it but kept playing hoping the clock wouldn't run out then HE was gambling for a win with the penalty of a loss if time ran out, rather than stopping the clock and claiming a draw.
Mickin: in the position given by OP it's not possible for either side to blunder because white found Nxc7+ and every move after that is forced by both sides
The argument about the "completed" move. USCF rules are pretty much in agreement with FIDE and USCF rule 9G points out the difference between a "determined move" and a "completed move:"
"there is a period between the release of a piece and the press of the clock during which the move is determined but not completed."
Basically a "determined move" means there is no possibility of changing it before you hit the clock.
So the move was NOT completed before time ran out.
As a Tournament Director, I've seen dozens of games where a player was so far ahead he couldn't stand to settle for a draw and kept playing to win even with a couple seconds left. The fact he didn't stop the clock and claim the draw made it easier for me to rule a loss when the loser complained: he knew - or should have known - he was rolling the dice for a win and had to suffer the rule's consequences when time ran out and the rules say he lost.
How can this be a draw?
White ran out of time as soon as Black captures Rook x Knight the game is over, Black wins.