Why people say chess and intelligence don't correlate! !?

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Avatar of ESP-918
stassneyking wrote:

It's an area of intelligence and covers quite a few things, but does not mean you have to be super intelligent to be a strong player. On the other hand there are many extremely smart people who are terrible at chess. In general the top players have high IQs but it's just a specific area in what would make up overall intelligence.

That's correct intelligence covers quite a few things.  I never said you have to be super intelligent to be a good player.

But what I'm saying is some people think that if someone good at chess they must be geniuses in all areas in life, super intelligent etc.. i don't agree with that and others think that being good at chess it's all just a drill , takes time and anyone can do it without being intelligent and it doesn't correlate in anyway with being good at chess I don't agree with that either. 

People don't understand what intelligence is, that's why.

Bottom line if you are good at chess you are SMART and that's a FACT ! And I do agree with your post with everything you said. You seems smart and mature bother way , you understand things quite well , much better then other members.

Avatar of Lavorre
ESP-918 wrote:
Lavorre wrote:

Being smart definitely would help someone be a good player, but being a good player doesn't mean that someone is smart. Same as any skill honestly. Someone who isn't naturally gifted can get very far in chess with regular practice, especially from a young age. I remember Nakamura took an IQ test on stream and scored a 102 for example.

You can't get far in chess with regular practice if your me more isn't good.

Being good players does mean person is smart, because he simply have high cognitive ability, which means he's already intelligent.

Intelligence has been defined in many ways: the capacity for logic, understanding, self-awareness, learning, emotional knowledge, reasoning, planning, creativity, critical thinking, and problem-solving. 

And one more thing, you don't measure someone's intelligence just by IQ tests. 

I don't think high cognitive ability makes a good chess player. Like I said being smart helps but experience beats intelligence pretty much every time with chess. I'd say having a good memory isn't a requirement either, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by memory. Do you mean just having a lot of knowledge about the game that you can easily recall? Because that's definitely needed, but I wouldn't call that intelligence. Being knowledgeable is just a matter of taking the time to learn, not being smart.

The last thing about IQ tests—it's just one way to measure intelligence, but it is backed by a lot of scientific research. Pretty much the entire field of Psychology was founded on it, so I don't think it's a bad example that one of the top chess players had an average score on it. Again you can always say there's more to it, but I think it's still worth mentioning.

Avatar of IMKeto
ESP-918 wrote:

So you are saying having a very good or photographic memory isn't smart or intelligence related?  Come on...

If a person is good at chess , his memory is already above average, so therefore he's intelligent.

 

I used to work with a guy that went to MIT, worked on the super collider project,  has a photographic memory, and a PhD.    He cant play chess worth a crap.

Avatar of Fiendamental
IMBacon wrote: ESP-918 wrote:

So you are saying having a very good or photographic memory isn't smart or intelligence related?  Come on...

If a person is good at chess , his memory is already above average, so therefore he's intelligent.

 

I used to work with a guy that went to MIT, worked on the super collider project,  has a photographic memory, and a PhD.    He cant play chess worth a crap.

 

"Super collider" doesn't sound successful by the title. That's like saying he was an accident prone finger food chef.   

Avatar of IMKeto
Fiendamental wrote:
IMBacon wrote: ESP-918 wrote:

So you are saying having a very good or photographic memory isn't smart or intelligence related?  Come on...

If a person is good at chess , his memory is already above average, so therefore he's intelligent.

 

I used to work with a guy that went to MIT, worked on the super collider project,  has a photographic memory, and a PhD.    He cant play chess worth a crap.

 

"Super collider" doesn't sound successful by the title. That's like saying he was an accident prone finger food chef.   

That was an easy block.

Avatar of Fiendamental
IMBacon wrote:
Fiendamental wrote:
IMBacon wrote: ESP-918 wrote:

So you are saying having a very good or photographic memory isn't smart or intelligence related?  Come on...

If a person is good at chess , his memory is already above average, so therefore he's intelligent.

 

I used to work with a guy that went to MIT, worked on the super collider project,  has a photographic memory, and a PhD.    He cant play chess worth a crap.

 

"Super collider" doesn't sound successful by the title. That's like saying he was an accident prone finger food chef.   

That was an easy block.

 

Easy to block for one person. 

Avatar of ESP-918
IMBacon wrote:
ESP-918 wrote:

So you are saying having a very good or photographic memory isn't smart or intelligence related?  Come on...

If a person is good at chess , his memory is already above average, so therefore he's intelligent.

 

I used to work with a guy that went to MIT, worked on the super collider project,  has a photographic memory, and a PhD.    He cant play chess worth a crap.

I'm sure he can play chess , very well perhaps, but he choose not to spend time on it , simple is that.

Avatar of Stil1

A person being good at chess mostly shows that they've spent many years toiling at the game, working their way up from being terrible at it, to finally becoming proficient.

It's similar to being a good carpenter, or a good painter, or a good dancer, or ...

Which is to say, chess skill isn't necessarily a matter of intelligence, but more a matter of persistence.

Avatar of IMKeto
ESP-918 wrote:
IMBacon wrote:
ESP-918 wrote:

So you are saying having a very good or photographic memory isn't smart or intelligence related?  Come on...

If a person is good at chess , his memory is already above average, so therefore he's intelligent.

 

I used to work with a guy that went to MIT, worked on the super collider project,  has a photographic memory, and a PhD.    He cant play chess worth a crap.

I'm sure he can play chess , very well perhaps, but he choose not to spend time on it , simple is that.

 

He knows how to play.  But even if he took it seriously I doubt he would be much better than he is now.  He has some serious issues when it comes to interacting with people.  His "social skills" are basically non-existent.  And as far as patience goes?  On a scale from 1-10?  he would fall somewhere around a .1

Avatar of mrfreezyiceboy

it depends on what you mean by "intelligence"

Avatar of IMKeto
mrfreezyiceboy wrote:

it depends on what you mean by "intelligence"

Strictly going by IQ, I am labeled as "above average".  Whatever that even means?  I dont know.  But I do know some people cling to that number like some cling to an online rating.  As it somehow defines them.  The guy i referred to earlier?  As intelligent as he is cant play chess worth a darn.  Then again i know a guy that doesn't take chess seriously, doesn't study, doesn't play in tournaments, and yet he can kick some serious chess butt. 

An IQ...a rating...all just numbers.  But they do not define you as a person.

Avatar of PerpetualPatzer123
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
Fiendamental wrote:

That's like saying if a person knows where a store is, then that makes them a smart driver. It just means they know how to recognize a goal. Reaching it depends on their ability and the chance to reach the goal.

 

Let's agree that intelligence is one tool a person can use to play chess, but  that alone is not going to get you a GM title.

 

You also need to make sure you are wearing the right banana shirt like Wesley So wears. 

nah it's like if you know all the stores in the state then that makes you a smart driver. Your analogies suck.

His analogy was fine lol?

Avatar of mrfreezyiceboy
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
AunTheKnight wrote:
ChesswithNickolay wrote:
Fiendamental wrote:

That's like saying if a person knows where a store is, then that makes them a smart driver. It just means they know how to recognize a goal. Reaching it depends on their ability and the chance to reach the goal.

 

Let's agree that intelligence is one tool a person can use to play chess, but  that alone is not going to get you a GM title.

 

You also need to make sure you are wearing the right banana shirt like Wesley So wears. 

nah it's like if you know all the stores in the state then that makes you a smart driver. Your analogies suck.

His analogy was fine lol?

lol?

lol...?

Avatar of darkunorthodox88
ESP-918 wrote:

So you are saying having a very good or photographic memory isn't smart or intelligence related?  Come on...

If a person is good at chess , his memory is already above average, so therefore he's intelligent.

 

a certain level of above average memory may be required to have very high intelligence , but above average memory does not equate with higher intelligence.

you are confusing necessary conditions with sufficient ones. Kim Peek had phenomenal memory as a savant, but his intelligence was  below average.

Avatar of TheBadGherkin
You are making two wrong claims by saying that being good at chess directly equates to a good ‘memory’ and by saying that a good memory directly equates to intelligence
Avatar of therealerickim

A better question is if my IQ has gone up or down after scrolling through this thread.

Avatar of mrfreezyiceboy
therealerickim wrote:

A better question is if my IQ has gone up or down after scrolling through this thread.

down

Avatar of IMKeto

The last couple of pages here proves intelligence has gone down

Avatar of mpaetz

     People say intelligence and chess ability do not correlate because it is true. Look up the meaning of "correlate" and you'll see it implies the two have a cause-and-effect relationship: you couldn't be good at chess without high intelligence; high intelligence will make you a good chess player.

     I've seen very intelligent people become fascinated with chess, work at it for years, and remain patzers. And I've known strong players with ordinary intelligence. For example, Nakamura publically took the Mensa IQ test and scored 103--average. Being good at chess doesn't mean someone is highly intelligent.

     And those claims that Carlsen, or Kasparov, or Fischer have super-high IQ scores all come from websites that are looking to lure suckers into paying to take their online IQ tests. Hardly reliable.

Avatar of darkunorthodox88
Tails204 wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If high-rated chess players were that cool and smart, they would get a real business and earn real money.

this is such fallacious thinking. a variation of the notorious "IF you are so smart, why arent you rich?"

1. smart people very often dont care about money, plenty of physicists, and  mathematicians simply dont care about money. You think a world class mathematician  like  Terence Tao, "only" makes 400k a year because he coudnt earn  better? same can be said of plenty of musicians, theologians, philosophers, and other passion fields, but the intellect association is especially there in the above two

but what makes you think intelligence is even the best trait for money making? 

 

Few people are passionate about mundane dribble the way some people are drawn to the 64 squares of the board, or a mathematicians devoting years of tinkering to solve/prove one theorem,or an artist in a quest for his masterpiece,  you dont get that level of soul-pouring into real-estate ,or sales.