There is another lineage of chess.
Chinese Chess.
It is very cool. Just as cool as its brethren Western Chess.
Will chess get changed, revised or developed?
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RTG-3sim wrote:
(randomness at some level)
It already existed.
In Burmese Chess, you can array you forces however you want behind the infantry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sittuyin
I conceive chess as a tri-athlon.
1 game of Western Chess.
1 game of Chinese Chess.
1 game of backgammon for a tie breaker.
I call it: The Gamesters of Triskelion
Jul 1, 2023
0
#5
These variants aren't being played and do have no popularity, they're not what I meant by my post. You can't find a site to play nor an engine or articles devoted for. Definitely they wont get adopted for the new chess phase, if ever.
Jul 1, 2023
0
#6
RTG-3sim wrote:
...We may see that we are just a few steps away from witnessing a change in chess, I assume. Will we see new pieces? Bigger board? or some RNG? (randomness at some level) Or an additional increment (column or row) to have an absolute center block at E5?.
Chess variants already exist and you can play many of them on chess.com; this includes less popular variants such as XL Chess, Racing Kings, Petrified and many more: https://www.chess.com/variants
However, (standard) chess is held to a different level and I highly doubt we'll see any changes soon with chess or it being solved for that matter.
As amazing as chess computers currently are, they are super far from solving chess and even if they can one day solve chess (and store all the information somehow), I still doubt it would change the play much for we human players.
If chess was solved by computers, then it is unlikely humans will have the capacity to perfectly mimic chess engines (computers) and it would probably be like Texas Hold'em (NL) Poker. This game is mathematically solved by computers using GTO (Game Theory Optimal) strategy. However, we still see many poker players making a living at the game. There are many reasons for this, but one big reason is because poker pros are playing human opponents who can't imitate the GTO strategies perfectly (even at the highest levels). GTO is seen more as a training tool and analysis feature and I'm sure computers will take a similar role for chess if the game is solved one day.
@RTG-3sim
1. They are not variants. That is they are not descendants of Western Chess. Chinese Chess is a branch off of Chaturanga, same as Western Chess. They are brothers.
2. You live in the Western World. Chinese Chess is very popular in China and Vietnam. Person per person, Chinese Chess is more popular than Western Chess.
3. There are sites and computer programs, and books. Same as Western Chess. You have to understand, there is another world on the other side of the world.
Jul 2, 2023
0
#8
@KeSetoKaiba
If chess get solved one day by computer, by a certain gambit/opening, for white or black. Then, all of GMs will adopt this opening. If any played an extraordinary move to run from the forced end, then he will be in a strong disadvantage. Similar games like Four-in-a-row get solved, chess is obviously not an exception.
Though I believe humans will never be able to solve chess nor computers, the playing is rushing towards a monotonous, repetitive and semi-forced way of playing. The more we advance on time, the more that we see less-interesting moves. This is what I meant by solved.
@long_quach
Well, sorry for despising other chess games. I don't find any verb than "variants', which chess may be considered as a variant to them. You still didn't answered my question of them not having a recognized website like chess (or the other site) or like FIDE organization.
I doubt they have more players than chess, even if, then absolutely chess is more known. Also chess is consisting of a wide different countries, people and cultures. Which is way more successful than a closed place, I don't feel it's my mistake to not know them. Though by a quick look, I feel they're essentially different from chess. Which wasn't quite what I meant, what I meant is just a slight (or a large) change in the chess pieces, board etc..
Jul 2, 2023
0
#9
I mean there is an engine for even atomic chess or anti chess, but these will never be as popular as regular chess
RTG-3sim wrote:
@KeSetoKaiba
@long_quach
1. Well, sorry for despising other chess games. I don't find any verb than "variants', which chess may be considered as a variant to them.
2. You still didn't answered my question of them not having a recognized website like chess (or the other site) or like FIDE organization.
3. I doubt they have more players than chess, even if, then absolutely chess is more known. Also chess is consisting of a wide different countries, people and cultures. Which is way more successful than a closed place,
4. I don't feel it's my mistake to not know them.
5. Though by a quick look, I feel they're essentially different from chess. Which wasn't quite what I meant, what I meant is just a slight (or a large) change in the chess pieces, board etc..
1. Cognate is a good word. 2 descendant from 1 common source. cognate = co-born. Cousin is good word. Sibling is a good word. Western Chess and Chinese Chess have a common ancestor in Chaturanga.
2. Just because we don't know about it does not mean it is not there.
English language.
Postal chess.
https://www.itsyourturn.com/t_helptopic2110.html
Vietnamese
Computer.
http://xahlee.info/chinese_chess/chinese_chess.html
I don't know any Chinese website because I cannot read Chinese.
3. What's the population of China?
Granted superior numbers does not mean better. Western Chess is known internationally, even in China.
4. China has many genius things. It is your mistake that you don't know about it. For example, Chinese is the only pictorial language. Example: Figurine algebraic:
♔ ♕ ♖ ♗ ♘ ♙
was invented in my lifetime, the Chess Informant books. That's the language of Chinese from the start.
5. Chinese Chess is closer to Chaturanga than Western Chess.
Elephant moves 2 squares diagonally, like Chaturanga. (Bishop)
Vizier moves 1 square diagonally, like Chaturanga. (Queen)
No pawn promotion, like Chaturanga.
No 2 step pawn, like Chaturanga.
No stalemate, like Chaturanga.
No castling, like Chaturanga.
With maniple pawn formation, and a cannon, you can yourself a ball.
long_quach wrote:
5. Chinese Chess is closer to Chaturanga than Western Chess.
The names are closer too.
Chinese - Sanskrit - Modern
Chariot - Chariot - Rook
Elephant - Elephant - Bishop
Adviser - Vizier - Queen [the Vizier is the advisor to the King]
@RTG-3sim
Chinese Chess is closer to Chaturanga than Western Chess.
We have Western Chess players going around not knowing what a Rook is.
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/why-is-a-castle-called-a-rook
In Chinese Chess, it is a glyph of a chariot.
車
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/why-is-a-castle-called-a-rook?page=3#comment-89162069
RTG-3sim wrote:
I don't feel it's my mistake to not know them.
It is your (you and you collectively) mistake not to know them.
Vladimir Kramnik proposes an exciting chess variant!
No-Castling Chess!
https://en.chessbase.com/post/vladimir-kramnik-proposes-an-exciting-chess-variant
It already exists in Chinese Chess.
This is like the theme of the Love Boat.
Love
exciting and new
come aboard
we're expecting you.
There is a woman who has amnesia from a car crash. Every day she falls in love with her husband, over and over again. Love, exciting and new. [That is not a joke, it really happened].
There is a good thing about amnesia.
Not knowing history is having amnesia. We are born not knowing the past. We are born with amnesia.
Amnesia. Love, exciting and new . . .
long_quach wrote:
4. I don't feel it's my mistake to not know them.
4. China has many genius things. It is your mistake that you don't know about it.
近而示之远，远而示之近.
"When we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;
when far away, we must make him believe we are near."
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War.
cooLLemonjuice wrote:
Rtg says that he thinks that normal chess could change.
I know what he said.
A descendant of modern Western Chess.
No variant of Chess became popular.
You don't need to create a descendant when what you are looking for already exists, your brother . . . from another . . . mother.
Chinese Chess is as old, is as popular, is as genius as Western Chess.
RTG-3sim wrote:
Or an additional increment (column or row) to have an absolute center block at E5?.
Behold, Chinese Chess.
Chess as a tri-athlon.
Backgammon as a tie breaker would solve randomness.
plainbruh wrote:
I don’t think that names influence how related a game is.
bishop - فيل (elephant)
Do you listen to yourself speaking?
In modern English Chess it is called
Bishop
and here is the "glyph"
♗
象
That's a glyph of an elephant. 4 legs, 1 tail, 2 big ears, and a trunk.
The glyphs are the same. The names are same as the atavus, progenitor, common ancestor.
Forget the names and the glyphs.
The movement.
2 squares diagonally, like its progenitor.
plainbruh wrote:
rook - قلعة (castle)
"castle"
♖
is very far from chariot.
車
Chess has emerged with its current phase for like 600 years ago, nothing much have changed except maybe like draw and stalemate regulations.
From like 1850-now chess is being played uniformed around the world, we see matches from 70+ years and from Mikhail Tal and before till Kasparov and Carlsen... I say, as obviously the game is just came close to being solved (though probably not), the matches are started getting repetitive and rarely you can do a sacrifice around a GM without an obvious or direct compensation.
We may see that we are just a few steps away from witnessing a change in chess, I assume. Will we see new pieces? Bigger board? or some RNG? (randomness at some level) Or an additional increment (column or row) to have an absolute center block at E5?.