Site changes, new policies

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Avatar of CarlMI

I do not want a reply from non-staff.  There are enough threads out there with comments by the members but in the end they are meaningless.

A new vacation "abuse" policy has been implemented.  Amoung other things it makes a person's vacation time subject to the questioning and approval of his opponent.  I find the concept wrong, can I make my opponent subject to my membership fees?  Seems appropriate since he now controls some of my account.

The policy calls for adjudication of lost positions.  If the position is lost, what is to adjudicate?  So who determined it was lost so the "abuse" policy could be invoked?  What is a lost position?  By the rules of chess I can think of three, mated, out of time, resigned.  Obviously Chess.com has come up with some new rules of chess.  What are they?  After all, not winnable is not the same as lost.  A statement such as "A position in which a 1200 player might be reasonably expected to beat a GM."  is both subjective and ridiculous.  B+N vs. K is a theoretical win, every watch a 1200 player try to execute it?  Advantage of 2 pawns is generally considered a win between GMs, does that apply here at all levels?

Or is the real rule, Scream loud enough and we will placate you?

Avatar of jaf299
CarlMI wrote:

A new vacation "abuse" policy has been implemented.  Amoung other things it makes a person's vacation time subject to the questioning and approval of his opponent. 


 I can't find any mention of this policy on the site. 'Amongst other things', so there is actually more in the policy then is mentioned above? I too would welcome a staff response to this post.

Avatar of artfizz
CarlMI wrote:

I do not want a reply from non-staff.  There are enough threads out there with comments by the members but in the end they are meaningless. ...


Probably best not to post in the public forum then.

Avatar of Cystem_Phailure
jaf299 wrote: I too would welcome a staff response to this post.

How about a link to wherever the OP got this information?

Avatar of erik
As far as I know we have only adjudicated games if it is a repeat offense in an absolutely completely obviously lost position and if that game is a tournament game that is the las game that is holding up the progress of the event. In other words, I have personally adjudicated a total of 3 games in a 3 year period. Matt (patzer24) may have done a handful as well. But if it's happened more than 20 times in the last few years (out of millions of games played), it's news to me. Any reason this has you suddenly concerned?
Avatar of jaf299

Thanks for the response Eric. What about the comments regarding a new vacation policy?

Avatar of CarlMI

Still waiting a definition of lost position.

 

http://www.chess.com/article/view/do-chess-pros-blunder

Avatar of CarlMI
Schachgeek wrote:

Ah, but isnt a lost position in the eye of the beholder?


well the staff claims it knows but isn't sharing the secret.  By my lights (and the rules of chess) there are only 3:   Mated, out of time, resignation.

Avatar of artfizz

FIDE's Laws of Chess cite dozens of ways of losing a game of chess e.g. arriving at the chess board late (article 10.15); but see also new-fide-rules and whats-up-with-fides-quotzero-tolerancequot-for-not-being-seated.

Avatar of underflow
CarlMI wrote:  Still waiting a definition of lost position. "

Here's a definition of Lost Position:  Any Chess game position from which a player must lose with accurate play.  Many complex lost positions may still offer winning or drawing chances with alert play.  (From http://www.chess-poster.com/english/glossary

In my opinion, the staff has acted very reasonably to adjucate certain games in very specific circumstances.  And as far as I can tell, there has not been a change in policy. 

Avatar of gambitgareth

I welcome site changes but only in a tournament scenario, 

I have had an opponent in a forced mate position who waited until he had a few hours left and then take vacation time before the win was eventually recorded,

However its not such an offence for 'lets play' objective to sit at the bottom of the pile on vacation. For tournaments however, many people may be waiting on the result and is therfore more onerous ...

Avatar of artfizz
AnthonyCG wrote: The round starts at a certain time and if you're not in your seat at that time then you forfeit. When the rule became more strict players were literally falling in the common areas while trying to get to the board on time. I remember one IM falling right behind his chair and he still was disqualified.

Sounds more like musical chairs than chess.

Avatar of jaf299
CarlMI wrote:

A new vacation "abuse" policy has been implemented.  Amoung other things it makes a person's vacation time subject to the questioning and approval of his opponent. 


 Still no clarification on this part of the original post. I doubt this could be chess.com policy, as when a person takes a vacation is their own business. Also, in three day and longer games, which can go on for quite some time, as person may not know they may need to take some time out when they start the game, as some unforeseen situation may arise.

I don't know where the poster got his information, but until the staff say different, I will take it that there is no change to the vacation policy.

Avatar of gambitgareth

brasmus, absolutely, I do not take a negative position in this situation - people are afterall people and though its hard to believe life exists outside of chess! - the impression I got of my opponent waiting is justifiably called waiting because it was I who was waiting ...

Avatar of TheGrobe

But, from what I heard from Erik earlier in the thread, the site also doesn't really enforce it, so isn't lack of enforcement equivalent to tacitly allowing it?

Avatar of TheGrobe

But you probably alsodon't have anything to worry about if you are a casual, or even habitual but not egregiously so, vacation abuser.

Avatar of TheGrobe

So what's all the hoopla about then?

Those that would like to see it enforced only really want to see it enforced in extreme circumstances, and it is.

Those that feel that their vacation time is sacred and private and that they should not be interfered with for what they feel is legitimate vacation that needs no justification will not be unless they are blatantly, repeatedly and egregiously using vacation to defer clearly lost games that are holding up a tournament.  In order words, their vacation time is effectively sacred and private and in need of no justification.

Avatar of jaf299
bsrasmus wrote:

I'm not sure why there is a lot of hoopla.  I haven't complained that the site doesn't enforce the rule often enough.  I have long believed that there was no reason for anyone to get excited about this rule unless they were one of the extreme violators that are in danger.


 I'd go with that, and also TheGrobe's comments. If vacation time is used as the site intended then fine. I think I was reading too much into the original post, that if someone took vacation time they almost had to get their opponents permission. What I read from the new message is that a player can call the staff's attention to a situation where they feel vacation time is being abused, the staff can then decide if the person is a serial vacation abuser and take appropriate action if they feel it neccessary.

Avatar of erik

again:

we adjudicate VERY rarely, and only in tournament situations where they are that last games. 

what is a position that is completely lost? we generally have one of our professional chess players handle that (like IM David Pruess). but examples are: king vs. king and 5 pawns, or king vs king and queen and 2 pawns. i mean, these are not tough decisions. they are obvious situations.

Avatar of pdela

Yep, you need DPruess to know that :)