gg is arrogance

@ilikeflags: of whose time? yours?

for the most part -- everyone's.  like i said, i don't believe in saying shit for the sake of saying it.  if the game really was "good" then gg is a crock of shit. it's 2 stupid letters that certainly don't reflect the spirit of a good game of chess. when i'm involved in a good game, then both parties are aware -- or at least they should be.  if i post a good win, then it's dickish to point that out ot the guy i just beat.  when i get slapped and i recognize that my opponent played really well and i'm in the mood, then i'll say something about how they played.  if they say "gg" i don't worry about it much but i know it's a crock of shit.  if i'm not in the mood to talk about how great my opponent played, then i move on and lick my wounds.  for me, the cordial behaviour should precede the game.  i often say, "thanks for playing me" before i make my first move.  especially if i don't know the guy.  if you know your opponent or have history with them, then each individual relationship is unique.  other wise, i general keep my mouth shut (or my hands off the keyboard) unless i'm trying to be a dick.  it's pretty simple.  it's like saying "good morning" to someone whose morning you don't really give a shit about.  why?  to look good?  to seem nice?  i don't believe in that.  either say it and mean it, or don't say it.  some huge percentage of "gg" offerings are for the sayer to feel something, not the person it's being said to.

 gp

You're certainly doing your part to keeping the thread going.  When I say your resorting to scatological language undermines your claim of being a champion of fundamental courtesy, it is a compliment and really means "have a nice day".

if you played me and said "gg" but meant "hey that game was interesting let's talk about it" then i'd ignore you.  if you really want to discuss the game then just discuss the game.  if your opponent is a normal human being, they'll be happy to do so.  talking about a game in an attempt to get better has so much more value than this useless abbreviated waste of time and effort. 

Of course, if your opponent is a normal human being they won't be wringing their panties if you type "gg" either.

yep

issues

I couldn't agree more. However, that is exactly what I did. My first post is on page 31, after actually reading 30 pages of comments on the topic and drawing the conclusion that this term has been adopted into the the online chess world as well. You might not agree on the adoption, but it is obvious that people feel the need to have some form of handshake or greeting after the game and "gg" has become this gesture. Since online chess in a number of ways is an extremely different way of playing chess compared to OTB (invisible anonymous opponents etc), for better or worse people wouldn't just write "handshake" or invent something new but have chosen to apply what was already common for other online games.

While I can perfectly understand why "gg" because of OTB traditions can seem wrong under certain circumstances, it it still apparent that to a great extent it has already been adopted. Considering that these things really have their own life on the internet it would require a massive campaign to change it. Every new user with online gaming experience would be be confused as to why their courtesy is suddenly offensive and the chess community considered a world of it's own. Why not just adapt to the natural development of things, considering the in all fairness extremely trivial nature of the subject?

Agreed too, but we're still talking about a physical environment of gaming where people will adopt acronyms because of the nature of the setup, such as playing on a phone with an awkward chat interface, playing multiple games at the same time etc. TFTG is not a commonly applied acronym, where as GG very much is.

While I agree with many of your points, I think you are overanalyzing peoples choice of phrases. All meetings and conversations start with something, and it's often a trivial nonsense thing like "good morning" simply for the reason of not yet knowing the other person.

"gg"

"yeah, that was fun, rematch?"

"sure, I never say no to a good challenge!"

Who won and who lost the game in the above conversation? Doesn't matter, it's just a simple opening as it is a "simple" game. The good thing also about opening with a simple phrase or acronym, is that you quickly figure out if the opponent have any interest in conversation at all as a lot of online gamers don't, which in this circumstance makes "gg" a neutral opening. No need to spend time writing elaborate things to people with no interest in conversation, and if they do it would just start from there.

@blake78613: I apologize for offending your sensibilities with my censored scatological language.  

your response is valid if a person is saying "gg" but meaning, hey let's talk about the game.  i have rarely seen this to be the case.  in my experience.  "gg" means nothing and users type it cuz they're lemmings and don't know what else to say and feel like they have to say something.  i am not interested in such bullshit.  though i will concede that in some cases, "gg" is used as an ice-breaker.  i have never and will never use it as such.  and let me be clear...  i don't take offense when someone i've played mindlessly types "gg" into the chat bar.  and i certainly don't judge the quality of a game based on my opponent's typing "gg" or not.  if you're here to socialise in addition to play chess, you'd be better served dumping "gg" and thinking up a new pick-up line.  

@ilikeflags: it only means a courtesy.  do you not understand that?  It's just a handshake.  You can say a nice thing.  Perhaps I am not in the mood to respond.  OK.  But you still said a nice thing.  Is this not clear that saying a kind thing to one's opponent is a good thing to do?

Actually I did, but almost nobody ever responded so I ended up just saying "gg", and about as many have responded to that. I'm happy to socialize and talk about the games as well as be courteous, but I have no interest in talking to myself :P

The thing is also, that when playing on the phone the chat functions are really tiny, almost hidden and easily missed when someone have made a comment. You don't get notifications for chat comments, and after the game you have to go back to it from another list to see if any comments were made, which I'm guessing further results in the above.

Appology accepted.  For some reason I am reminded of the scatological insults that were traded between Sir Thomas Moore and Martin Luther.  The exchange was all done in perfect Latin.

i do understand. and i think it's lazy and silly.  i also understand that saying "gg" and saying something nice to your opponent are not really the same thing.

Ecxept in the eyes of most people as well as in most situations where it is commonly used. That fact should conclude the debate, but my guess is it won't (not to critisize replies, it's a forum, people discuss)

GGG

Good point and speak of tradition when I lose a game of chess here I don't say gg, I moon them (although the player never sees).