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Hardest Mate in 4 of All Time
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Dec 29, 2018
0
#163
The castling dispute is resolved by the FEN of the OP diagram, revealing the missing piece of information.
Result: neither side can castle, so it is #2, 1. b7!
The position is possible. There is said nowhere in the studie that white must have a right to castle. If white can not Castel but black does, This is possible. I will show you.
It must be possible faster but it was a bit a puzzel for me how to get it. It s legal.
Thus that means that the position with white on move is a checkmate.
But it is not in 4 but in 5 moves as follow.
Jan 4, 2019
0
#168
The intended solution is described in post #24 by Remellion: according to retro-logic, only one (or neither) side can castle. Applying chess problem conventions, first of all, white must "prove" black cannot castle, or black king escapes from mating net by castling. White "does" it by executing own castling which leaves black without the right to castle, only then white checkmates by promoting the b-pawn to rook or queen.
Clever, but it brings several problems:
1. Not everyone accepts problem conventions as binding, e.g. me. As mentioned, future doesn't create past. Black either can castle or not, and white's moves can't change it.
2. Chess problems with retro-feature must be distinguished from classic puzzles, mentioning that in stipulation. The OP "forgot" that.
3. If you use the site's diagram editor, you must give away the crucial information about castling rights. In this particular case, neither side can castle, so it is trivial mate in 2.
Jan 4, 2019
0
#169
Polar Bear, your post was clever, but it brings several problems.
1. A composed problem position is not a snapshot of an actual game and does not have a past, it has a collection of possible pasts. Moves made from the starting position can change that collection.
2. If you use the site's diagram editor to post a problem position, the information provided about castling has to be ignored, since that information must be inferred from the possible pasts of the position.
3. Problem solving would stop being enjoyable if each composer got to make up his or her own conventions.
Athanael написа:
Athanael написа: I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).I will give hints at a later stage.Now enjoy!
I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.
Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.
The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).
I will give hints at a later stage.
Now enjoy!
borislav2007 написа:
borislav2007 написа: Athanael написа:I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).I will give hints at a later stage.Now enjoy!Athanael написа: I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).I will give hints at a later stage.Now enjoy!
Athanael написа:
Athanael написа: I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).I will give hints at a later stage.Now enjoy!
I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.
Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.
The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).
I will give hints at a later stage.
Now enjoy!
borislav2007 написа:
borislav2007 написа: borislav2007 написа:Athanael написа:I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).I will give hints at a later stage.Now enjoy!Athanael написа: I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).I will give hints at a later stage.Now enjoy! borislav2007 написа: Athanael написа:I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).I will give hints at a later stage.Now enjoy!Athanael написа: I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).I will give hints at a later stage.Now enjoy!
borislav2007 написа:
borislav2007 написа: Athanael написа:I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).I will give hints at a later stage.Now enjoy!Athanael написа: I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).I will give hints at a later stage.Now enjoy!
Athanael написа:
Athanael написа: I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).I will give hints at a later stage.Now enjoy!
I apologize if this has been posted before, but I was just so enthusiastic about the following puzzle (which is not mine by the way) to the point I couldn't help but share it with you guys.
Believe it or not, there is a mate in 4 in this position.
The fun thing about it is that not even Stockfish could help you come up with the correct solution, and as such I highly doubt any of you will be able to figure it out ( and hence why I called it the hardest mate in 4 of all time).
I will give hints at a later stage.
Now enjoy!
RubenHogenhout написа:
RubenHogenhout написа: Thus that means that the position with white on move is a checkmate.But it is not in 4 but in 5 moves as follow.
Thus that means that the position with white on move is a checkmate.
But it is not in 4 but in 5 moves as follow.
RubenHogenhout написа:
RubenHogenhout написа: Thus that means that the position with white on move is a checkmate.But it is not in 4 but in 5 moves as follow.
Thus that means that the position with white on move is a checkmate.
But it is not in 4 but in 5 moves as follow.
Jan 4, 2019
0
#176
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_analysis
as RubenHogenhout showed in comment 170, a legal game where black has castling right.
so there must be another line of solution.
Jan 5, 2019
0
#177
anup30 wrote:
as RubenHogenhout showed in comment 170, a legal game where black has castling right.
so there must be another line of solution.
No one is disputing that both players can castle in the problem's starting position, since there is at least one history in which White can castle, and at least one history in which Black can castle. But there is no history in which both sides still have castling rights.
There is still only one way to mate in 4. It is after White castles, on the second move of that mate in 4, that the position no longer has a history in which Black could have castling rights, and thus Black cannot castle.
Jan 5, 2019
0
#178
n9531l wrote:
anup30 wrote:
as RubenHogenhout showed in comment 170, a legal game where black has castling right.
so there must be another line of solution.
No one is disputing that both players can castle in the problem's starting position, since there is at least one history in which White can castle, and at least one history in which Black can castle. But there is no history in which both sides still have castling rights.
There is still only one way to mate in 4. It is after White castles, on the second move of that mate in 4, that the position no longer has a history in which Black could have castling rights, and thus Black cannot castle.
i agree with you that in one line its M4.
but i think, the whole problem or composition isn't M4 if its not M4 in all lines.
i mean we dont have mate in 4 if the game arrived through as comment 170.
Jan 5, 2019
0
#179
anup30 wrote:
but i think, the whole problem or composition isn't M4 if its not M4 in all lines.
You are free to hold that opinion, but I think most problem composers and solvers would disagree.
Note that this is not a problem that uses PRA, since it does not have multiple solutions based on different histories. Finding a mate in 5 does not solve a problem that requires mate in 4.
'Castling Chess Puzzles' by UltimateCrusher2 currently on page 29 of the forum.