Controversial Topic (Creation vs Evolution 2?)

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Avatar of USArmyParatrooper
dbeleiu wrote:
@USarmy paratrooper
Because God doesn’t want the love of robots. God wants us to choose to love Him not be forced by Him to love Him.

I didn’t ask why God doesn’t force us to love him. I asked why he doesn’t convince us he exists.  Don’t worry, if you dodge the question the second time there’s a good chance I won’t notice 👍

Avatar of dbeleiu
@ginger ninja
1 it likely wasn’t an apple
2 a thought experiment.

Let’s say one person breaks the first cog of a irreplaceable machine. The machine cannot be replaced and all the other functions of the machine are impaired and those who use the machine also only experience a limited range of function. The thing is God gave humans a choice to put a repair on this machine to restore some of its functions.
Avatar of gingerninja2003
jaredjm wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:
jaredjm wrote:
gingerninja2003 wrote:
dbeleiu wrote:
@kgollamudi
Poverty hunger and war and all these terrible things exist because God also keeps His promises. At the beginning there was a contract between God and humanity. God would give us everything but one tree. Should we follow God He will keep us in paradise but if we decide to disobey and thus reject God He would punish us by taking the paradise away from us because He can’t stand sin.

So basically, everyone who does suffer deserves to because two people who lived thousands of years ago ate an apple?

Everyone else has sinned too. 

How do you know? What crime has everyone committed?

Um, it's quite obvious. Would you seriously ask me to believe that you (or anyone) has lived a completely perfect life?

No but there's injustice, would it fair to, for example, give someone cancer when the worst thing they've done is steal sweets from their sibling when they were 8?

Avatar of dbeleiu
@USarmy paratrooper
God did not sacrifice Himself to Himself. He came to earth solely to be punished in our place. He acknowledged that we sinned and decided to take the ultimate consequence on Himself.
Avatar of dbeleiu
Again the world is now a broken machine @jared jm
Avatar of gingerninja2003
dbeleiu wrote:
@ginger ninja
1 it likely wasn’t an apple
2 a thought experiment.

Let’s say one person breaks the first cog of a irreplaceable machine. The machine cannot be replaced and all the other functions of the machine are impaired and those who use the machine also only experience a limited range of function. The thing is God gave humans a choice to put a repair on this machine to restore some of its functions.

But god can fix the machine, he's god, he can do whatever he likes. Just cause one person breaks the machine doesn't mean that god shouldn't fix it and let people be hurt by a machine that won't pass health and safety regulations. 

BTW I think I struggle to understand your thought experiment please re-word it if it's apparent i've mis-understood it.  

Avatar of USArmyParatrooper
dbeleiu wrote:
@USarmy paratrooper
God did not sacrifice Himself to Himself. He came to earth solely to be punished in our place. He acknowledged that we sinned and decided to take the ultimate consequence on Himself.

 It’s Christian doctrine that Jesus was a sacrifice. You’re saying you don’t believe Jesus was a sacrifice?  Also the notion that punishing one person absolves a different person for their wrongdoings is preposterous. 

Avatar of dbeleiu
@USArmyparatrooper
Sorry for “dogging the question” did not mean to lol. My answer is still somewhat the same though. God does value our free will He could make us know He exists or He could give us the tools and choice to believe or not. Is this what you were looking for?
Avatar of dbeleiu
Again @ ginger ninja
God did choose to give a repair for the machine He just doesn’t force everyone to use it.
Avatar of dbeleiu
He also decided to respect our choice to disobey Him
Avatar of USArmyParatrooper
dbeleiu wrote:
@USArmyparatrooper
Sorry for “dogging the question” did not mean to lol. My answer is still somewhat the same though. God does value our free will He could make us know He exists or He could give us the tools and choice to believe or not. Is this what you were looking for?

If I show you evidence that Sacramento is the capital of California, and that evidence convinces you, did I violate your free will? No? Great! 

Looks like you’re going to have to try another ad hoc explanation. Why doesn’t God just convince us he exists? 

Avatar of gingerninja2003
dbeleiu wrote:
Again @ ginger ninja
God did choose to give a repair for the machine He just doesn’t force everyone to use it.

Right? What is the machine a metaphor for? It can't be the planet because everyone uses the planet.

Avatar of gingerninja2003
dbeleiu wrote:
He also decided to respect our choice to disobey Him

He respected our choice to disobey him by letting children die in agony. Makes sense.

Avatar of dbeleiu
@USArmy paratrooper
Jesus was a sacrifice. My bad! But He was a sacrifice as was according to the Jewish sacrificial system, which was an atonement system. If a person steals and repents of his crime. The owner of the stolen object has two options. Press charges or absorb the cost of the object.
Avatar of dbeleiu
@USArmy paratrooper
God has given us evidence He exists
Avatar of dbeleiu
The machine is a metaphor for all creation. The point is that everyone uses parts of creation and everyone makes up a part of creation. Humanity just chose to break it.
Avatar of USArmyParatrooper
dbeleiu wrote:
@USArmy paratrooper
God has given us evidence He exists

 I disagree. I haven’t found any convincing evidence. Why doesn’t he convince me? 

Avatar of MainframeSupertasker

I think it's about "choosing" to accept the evidence.

Avatar of dbeleiu
Also @ ginger ninja
You mention that He let’s children died in agony. This is kinda a weird point given that He is not not giving them a choice and if you believe in the age of acceptance, which I do, then many of these children go to heaven
Avatar of gingerninja2003
dbeleiu wrote:
The machine is a metaphor for all creation. The point is that everyone uses parts of creation and everyone makes up a part of creation. Humanity just chose to break it.

I still don't understand why god can't fix all creation/'the machine' just because two people ate fruit from a tree.

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