Controversial Topic (Creation vs Evolution 2?)

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Avatar of MainframeSupertasker
USArmyParatrooper wrote:
 
How did you ascertain that existence itself
 
- That there cannot be an infinite regress of causes?

If the universe never had a beginning, that means that the number of past events in the history of the universe is infinite. But mathematicians recognize that the existence of an actually infinite number of things leads to self-contradictions.

For example, what is infinity minus infinity? Well, mathematically, you get self-contradictory answers. This shows that infinity is just an idea in your mind, not something that exists in reality. David Hilbert, perhaps the greatest mathematician of the twentieth century, states, the infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea.

Avatar of gingerninja2003
MainframeSupertasker wrote:
USArmyParatrooper wrote:
 
How did you ascertain that existence itself
 
- That there cannot be an infinite regress of causes?

If the universe never had a beginning, that means that the number of past events in the history of the universe is infinite. But mathematicians recognize that the existence of an actually infinite number of things leads to self-contradictions.

For example, what is infinity minus infinity? Well, mathematically, you get self-contradictory answers. This shows that infinity is just an idea in your mind, not something that exists in reality. David Hilbert, perhaps the greatest mathematician of the twentieth century, states, the infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea.

Thanks for showing that god cannot be infinitely powerful.

Avatar of MainframeSupertasker
Ginarook wrote:

Excellent, then clearly you agree that the notion of some kind if infinite being is also subject to the same analysis, and is therefore highly unlikely !

What a fine Atheist you are !!

Can you measure "Love" in a quantitative manner? No, it is an uncountable quantity. Can you measure power in terms of control over all things? No. It is solely an idea.

Love is something which you can feel its reality, it is something in your head. You can see "infinite love" and "love" but you cannot rationally calculate their values to each other.

Can you measure the number of past events? Yes, it is finite.

Assuming you are an atheist, I see it funny how you differentiate quantitative and non-quantitive analysis.

Avatar of MainframeSupertasker

was a fine atheist 5 months ago, anyways.

Avatar of gingerninja2003
MainframeSupertasker wrote:
Ginarook wrote:

Excellent, then clearly you agree that the notion of some kind if infinite being is also subject to the same analysis, and is therefore highly unlikely !

What a fine Atheist you are !!

Can you measure "Love" in a quantitative manner? No, it is an uncountable quantity. Can you measure power in terms of control over all things? No. It is solely an idea.

Love is something which you can feel its reality, therefore it is something in your head. You can see "infinite love" and "love" but you cannot rationally calculate their values to each other.

Can you measure the number of past events? Yes.

Assuming you are an atheist, I see it funny how you differentiate quantitative and qualitative analysis.

With gods power although it may not be exactly quantifiable (actually maybe watts?), we have to put limits on it. For example you would've heard the paradox with the un-liftable stone so I won't outline it, but that is an example of a limit. God cannot have infinite power as we can use paradoxes to show limits to his power. 

Also I've never heard anyone explain the omniscient and omnipotent's paradox as to how god can get round it.

Avatar of Metar_Taf
dbeleiu wrote:
Lol an evil God also wouldn’t sacrifice Himself to save imperfect humans who reject Him. @Manatini

Read the whole bible, then argue. The common media often tells half the story of Christians. Women’s rights, civil rights, etc were by Christians.

Avatar of Metar_Taf
Ginarook wrote:

Excellent, then clearly you agree that the notion of some kind if infinite being is also subject to the same analysis, and is therefore highly unlikely !

What a fine Atheist you are !!

It’s called infinite.

Avatar of gingerninja2003

psalm 137:9

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

 

Avatar of dbeleiu
@ holograpwars

I have read the whole Bible. I still stand by my point God cannot wish us evil because He loves us.
Avatar of USArmyParatrooper
MainframeSupertasker wrote:
USArmyParatrooper wrote:
 
How did you ascertain that existence itself
 
- That there cannot be an infinite regress of causes?

If the universe never had a beginning, that means that the number of past events in the history of the universe is infinite. But mathematicians recognize that the existence of an actually infinite number of things leads to self-contradictions.

For example, what is infinity minus infinity? Well, mathematically, you get self-contradictory answers. This shows that infinity is just an idea in your mind, not something that exists in reality. David Hilbert, perhaps the greatest mathematician of the twentieth century, states, the infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea.

A bald, baseless assertion on your part. The world’s leading cosmologists DON’T KNOW and still debate whether it is infinite.

 

Avatar of dbeleiu
@ ginarook

First of God is an ETERNAL being not infinite. Now, He has no bounds or limits, but He is Eternal. God is also all powerful and all knowing, this generally means His powers are infinite. Going off the basis that God exists (He does) then the rules of our universe actually CANNOT be applied to Him. He existed before our universe did meaning that God did not exist in a place of time or space. I believe science dictates that time and space are structures that existed only after the creation of the universe.
Avatar of dbeleiu
If this much is already true about God then our rules don’t apply to Him. He could have infinite powers because He is not bound by the rules of our universe.
Avatar of gingerninja2003
dbeleiu wrote:
@ holograpwars

I have read the whole Bible. I still stand by my point God cannot wish us evil because He loves us.

Then you must think that the test god gave Abraham was moral in genesis 22. 

You must also think that slavery is moral, as outlined in Leviticus 25 verses 44, 45 and 46.

Avatar of USArmyParatrooper
dbeleiu wrote:
@ ginarook

First of God is an ETERNAL being not infinite. Now, He has no bounds or limits, but He is Eternal. God is also all powerful and all knowing, this generally means His powers are infinite. Going off the basis that God exists (He does) then the rules of our universe actually CANNOT be applied to Him. He existed before our universe did meaning that God did not exist in a place of time or space. I believe science dictates that time and space are structures that existed only after the creation of the universe.

What is the difference between being eternal and being infinite in time?

Avatar of Nemo9566
But there are so many things wrong with the world. If god does exist, and if he does love us, why does poverty exist? Why does hunger and death exist?
Avatar of Metar_Taf
dbeleiu wrote:
@ holograpwars

I have read the whole Bible. I still stand by my point God cannot wish us evil because He loves us.

I was not trying to contradict your argument. I was quoting the person above. (By mistake i quoted this) 

Avatar of Metar_Taf
Ginarook wrote:
dbeleiu wrote:
@ holograpwars

I have read the whole Bible. I still stand by my point God cannot wish us evil because He loves us.

Circular reasoning (often begging the question) is a logical fallacy that occurs when the conclusion of an argument is used as a premise of that same argument; i.e., the premises would not work if the conclusion weren't already assumed to be true.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

 

 

Have you read bible?

Avatar of jaredjm
Ginarook wrote:

Some of it, have you read any book about Logical fallacies ? the Fallacy Detective is also very good

I've read that

Avatar of dbeleiu
@army paratrooper
The difference is the terms. One term should not be used to describe someone in that way. The word eternal in the context which it should be used in is not interchangeable with infinite.
Avatar of dbeleiu
@ginarook
I do apologize if I used a logical fallacy, but my premise was “God cannot wish us evil” my evidence was “God loves us” I do not how this is a fallacy.
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