Covid-19 Discussion (moderated)

   The last election was about red states/blue states.  I get the impression the next election is going to be about masks/no masks.....

   Lets not get too political please. I said it because over the last 2 weeks we've seen half a dozen incidences in numerous states involving people with masks fighting with people with no masks. 

France bans use of hydroxiclroroquine. Seems that it worsen patients, instead of getting them better...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/france-bans-use-of-hydroxychloroquine-drug-touted-by-trump-to-treat-coronavirus/

So they said face masks were not necessary, now they say you must use them. They said hydroxicloroquine was good, now they say it is bad. What' s next?

I would say that the mask issue evolved from "you don't really need masks but healthcare workers are dangerously short, so stop buying them up" to "now we know this virus is often asymptomatic, so please wear masks to protect other people".

The hydroxychloroquine issue has always been the uninformed "it's good based on anecdotal evidence but have science to back that up at all" vs. the medical professionals "let's wait and see some data...oops, turns out it actually harms more than it helps...see, that's why we wait for studies".

What are the numbers like in the US now? 37,460 people have died in the UK (0.05% of the population) , 267,000 confirmed cases (0.4% of the population). It's a lot of people but framed in %age terms it's negligible. Things are starting to re-open, looking like by the end of June lockdown may be over and life can begin again for people (with social distancing measures of some sort still in place). Perhaps it has all been necessary to stop a giant wave of deaths and illnesses sweeping the country, perhaps I am a victim of the fatigue of lengthy enforced lockdown measures that were predicted at the start (even though I have still been working) - but the more I look at the numbers vs total population and the more I think about the massively negative impact on daily life for everyone, the more I'm forming the opinion that there has been a massive overreaction. People die, something will kill us all, its no way to live when families and friends cannot embrace or set foot in one another's houses just in case a virus which has infected less that 1/2 of 1% of the population is passed between us. A virus that even if you do get it is likely only to be fatal if you have underlying health conditions. It's my twin nieces 11th birthday today and when I go and see them tonight I can't hug them? It's perhaps not a popular view but there it is, it's how I'm feeling at the moment. 

Having said that, there are some questions about the study that seemed to indicate that hydroxychloroquine was causing more deaths in patients with COVID-19: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/may/28/questions-raised-over-hydroxychloroquine-study-which-caused-who-to-halt-trials-for-covid-19

Basically people asking how that study obtained its data, and on review them finding that a hospital had been miscategorised as being in Australia rather than Asia.

This sort of questioning is how science works: you look at the data but also look at how they went about obtaining that data. It gets reviewed before it gets published, but also reviewed after it's published.

It doesn't help when the leadership in the UK didn't seem to have taken things particularly seriously themselves: Johnson before he got ill, and his special adviser Dominic Cummings just recently. Please don't go down the right of saying that it's okay because it's only old people - those are someone's parents and grandparents. They might be your parents - maybe if they died of this, you'd get your inheritance sooner, and that would help pay off your mortgage faster. I get that it gets tiring, but don't lose sight of why we're doing this, even if your political leaders have never "got it" in the first place.

Yeah I'm not saying that those who have died or suffered it should be discarded like it doesn't matter. But its such a tiny fraction which have been affected it seems like everybody's lives have been screwed because everyone's scared. And living in such fear and with such restriction is no kind of living. Probably I'm just getting tired of it rolling on and on. 

In my view no one should underestimate the danger of this pandemic.Unfortunately in some countries the Governments are accelerating the easing of the lockdown restrictions.The public are lulled into a false sense of security and in countries like yours bodies are packed together on.beaches.What a great way to ensure the virus will roll on and on and on

In certain African states there is a far.more rational and cautious official attitude to easing lockdown.See  my posting at# 1244.Don't get too complacent!

Understandable to err on the side of caution. Most governments are guided by the opinion of their senior medics, whatever job title that might be. In the UK its the Chief Medical Officer. Circumstances are different in each country, but the wide range of differing responses indicates to me that the medical experts haven't really and don't really know the best way (this is unprecedented so understandable). Some are easing, some are maintaining, some acted very early, some waited before restricting. Some only partially restricted in the first place. 35,000 cases, 4,220 deaths in Sweden for example, far beneath the UK numbers although this has climbed recently - a nation which did not enforce a lockdown, merely suggested and advised its citizens. Now protests are happening in Stockholm calling for stronger measures due to rising numbers of cases in recent days. What to do? In the hypothetical scenario of the numbers of confirmed cases and deaths in each country currently staying the same each day for the foreseeable future what would be the correct course of action? Full lockdown for 6 months? 1 year? 2 years, 5 years? When is the point where we just have to crack on with living life and take our chances? We only get one go at this gig and anything could end our lives at any moment... This is just my opinion/perspective anyway, maybe it's selfish because my personal circumstances dictate my thoughts. 

I have the feeling that I lost half a year when I could not meet my friends, teachers, lost my part-time job and thus increased the financial strain on my parents. I must say it sucks because I am supposed to live the best years of my life. On the other hand I can also understand that decisions were made to protect the population, in the meantime I also found the opportunity to spend more time with my dog and focus on things I would not have learned If the lockdown never happened. I guess seeing the glass half full instead of half empty helps is good for morale.

No lock down and easily 5 times more sick peoples.

That mean a lot more death because it will overwhelming the health care system five times more and a lot of closed business because of the number of sick peoples!

The death rate is close to 1% in the USA and 7% AT LEAST NEED AN HOSPITALIZATION!

And this is far from over in China they are having a second wave and 100 millions are again under a lock down and same in some part of the USA were the number of sick is way up now because of the removing of the lock down ( 11 states)

BTW it's a lot more than 37 000 death they only counted the hospitalized one like in most countries.

Same here 267 000 is just the one that were tested the real number is 5% of the population not .4%

The virus is not passed between us;still millions will get infected before a vaccine is working and at least 70% of the population can immunized IF the immunization work,

There will be no normal live before at leat one year and probably never if the virus Mutated in the wrong way....

In one year from now you have a good chance of having a second wave and another 50 000 deaths IF the peoples do not take this VERY SERIOUSLY!

In this context fear was very important because this virus is no joke!

Do not look at the number because the FIRST WAVE only hit a very small part of the countries.....

Where i live only two cities were affected in a big way! but it's still pretty bad there! 

Same in the USA only a few states were really hit very hard!

The lock down WORKED!

Well if you put it in capital letters then I suppose so... Its clearly very serious, but I maintain that if as you say the virus mutates and 'normal' life can never resume then what sort of life is that, cowering in fear of what might happen, never holding your nearest and dearest in your arms again if they live in a different household etc etc? 

Only 10 millions of population in Sweden 4300 deaths x 7= 30 100 and 2 times more cases per day now that in my country were we are 38 millions peoples.

A lock down is not meant to last more than 3 months and only that long where it's needed!

It's lifted already in most place has much has 50% +

That is the worst case.....let's not go there!

It could happen but no one wish that.

And as I type I am stood in a supermarket queue, outside the store, folks are 2 metres apart and it's a 1 in 1 out basis. I have been queuing for 20 minutes and have made it about 1/2 way. So something which would normally take 5 minutes (I need like 3 things) will take 45. I don't get this time back. In the grand scheme of things it's obviously only a minor inconvenience but these little things add up to a large impact on time and quality of life. Must we shop in this fashion forever now? Are we too worried to return to the old ways, even when the worst of the virus appears to have passed? Questions...