Does True Randomness Actually Exist?

Sort:
Avatar of DootDootDoot123
If you define randomness as unpredictability that is
Avatar of Elroch
Optimissed wrote:
Elroch wrote:

They have an element of randomness. Randomness is about incomplete information, not a lack of any information.

That may be slightly prejudicial to a true understanding, if it's taken to imply that the information may exist, except that we don't have access to it. So perhaps it supports the idea of "hidden variables" much more than it should.

Better to define randomness or t.r. as absolute unpredictability. Just thought of that but it seems ok.

When you have a random event, information about the outcome is incomplete before it occurs. After it occurs it is known, so there is no dispute that the information lies somewhere. This issue is that it is somewhere inaccessible before the event (a place called the future).

Avatar of Optimissed
Elroch wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Elroch wrote:

They have an element of randomness. Randomness is about incomplete information, not a lack of any information.

That may be slightly prejudicial to a true understanding, if it's taken to imply that the information may exist, except that we don't have access to it. So perhaps it supports the idea of "hidden variables" much more than it should.

Better to define randomness or t.r. as absolute unpredictability. Just thought of that but it seems ok.

When you have a random event, information about the outcome is incomplete before it occurs. After it occurs it is known, so there is no dispute that the information lies somewhere. This issue is that it is somewhere inaccessible before the event (a place called the future).


Best to be clear. Some information is known or exists after it occurs. That doesn't help with predicting the event in the first place.

Avatar of Elroch

It doesn't. That would entail the information being in the past of the event, making it non-random (partial information could reduce the randomness).

The really interesting thing is however where information is non-local. Intuitively this is where there is randomness in two (or more) events, but that randomness is shared. It is challenging to be comfortable with this weirdness.

Avatar of Optimissed

Yes, that's interesting indeed, especially if information hypothetically exists; but non-locally. And yet it does exist, and might be seen to describe local behaviour, even though that would contravene some laws of physics.

Avatar of Optimissed

But then, since I strongly believe that the mind can have access to non-local information or cause non-local events, it would seem that I'm comfortable with weirdness.

Avatar of Elroch

There is no problem with the mind having access to non-local information. Once observed it ceases to be non-local of course.

There is a hypothesis that the function of the brain depends on large-scale entanglement. Remarkably, a recent experiment supports the existence of such entanglement when the brain is in a conscious state and not when it is not, suggesting a role for entanglement in consciousness. Intriguing.

Avatar of Optimissed
Elroch wrote:

There is no problem with the mind having access to non-local information. Once observed it ceases to be non-local of course.

There is a hypothesis that the function of the brain depends on large-scale entanglement. Remarkably, a recent experiment supports the existence of such entanglement when the brain is in a conscious state and not when it is not, suggesting a role for entanglement in consciousness. Intriguing.


It's occurred to me so it's bound to have occurred to others also.

Avatar of Optimissed

Regarding <<a recent experiment supports the existence of such entanglement when the brain is in a conscious state and not when it is not, suggesting a role for entanglement in consciousness.>> it's most likely the experiment was fouled up in some way.

Around 10 years ago I concluded that the functioning of the brain itself relies completely on something akin to what is called the paranormal, which we can call entanglement for argument's sake, since the effects describe some kind of entanglement.

I'm glad you are interested in such things. I'm pleasantly affected by what seems to have been a greater interest and open-ness. I'm not trying to be patronising although it may seem like it. I do mean it.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Elroch wrote:

There is no problem with the mind having access to non-local information. Once observed it ceases to be non-local of course.

There is a hypothesis that the function of the brain depends on large-scale entanglement. Remarkably, a recent experiment supports the existence of such entanglement when the brain is in a conscious state and not when it is not, suggesting a role for entanglement in consciousness. Intriguing.

There are some good articles on Big Think, but be wary...it's a Koch funded media venture and they mix in stuff with an agenda on a regular basis.  Their motto is "It's the news, reimagined"...i.e. re-spun.

Avatar of ShriQueen

yes like the internet randos trying 2 friend me

Avatar of Optimissed
ShriQueen wrote:

yes like the internet randos trying 2 friend me

mebbe people think you're older than you look?

Avatar of Elroch

You should see how many friend requests you get when you have a rating ~2400. 😀😀

Avatar of Elroch
btickler wrote:
Elroch wrote:

There is no problem with the mind having access to non-local information. Once observed it ceases to be non-local of course.

There is a hypothesis that the function of the brain depends on large-scale entanglement. Remarkably, a recent experiment supports the existence of such entanglement when the brain is in a conscious state and not when it is not, suggesting a role for entanglement in consciousness. Intriguing.

There are some good articles on Big Think, but be wary...it's a Koch funded media venture and they mix in stuff with an agenda on a regular basis.  Their motto is "It's the news, reimagined"...i.e. re-spun.

Fair point.

A Physics World article on the topic is more comprehensive but consistent with the simplified Big Think version.

Avatar of noodles2112

Elroch - You would still have friends if your rating was 0000wink.png 

Avatar of Elroch

Thank you kindly, John. happy.png

Avatar of amazinggoalkeeper
This is true random ulhgvugvluhsdbadnvlikesuhvlisandkc
Ajnsli(iutsdvvauskhdvgliasxjnckLckudak
Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

 It is challenging to be comfortable with this weirdness.

its only cuz ur trying too hard.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

 I'm pleasantly affected by what seems to have been a greater interest and open-ness. 

its only cuz he cant find any answers for it in STEM. been tryn2say that for a long time now...uknow applying STEM when one shouldnt be. left-brainer stuff. no creativity.

Avatar of aarnavhps
Elroach I believe this phenomenon is know in quantum biology and it is the Eason that birds can communicate during migration like they have entangled parts of their brain. Forgive me if I am wrong