Does True Randomness Actually Exist? ( ^&*#^%$&#% )

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Avatar of MustangMate-inactive

Events are neither deterministic nor random.

Ever thought the wrong terms are being used to describe observations?

Avatar of Optimissed
MustangMate wrote:

Free will exists. 

Regarding randomness and especially "true randomness" as generally understood, it does NOT exist.

I find it perplexing, why it's assumed the Two must go hand in hand. But then , just another example of "either or" - if things aren't one way they must be another; or if one thing exists something else must be of similar nature.

They tend to be seen as the two major pillars of any argument against determinism. You know, it used to be thought that people who believe in determinism are mad or maybe deeply depressed. I thought it until ten or twelve years ago but since then, there seems to be evidence that people just learn arguments put forward by others, and regurgitate them, so they've never thought deeply about it. But even if that's true, I think it must affect people's minds for the worse and I'd be surprised if it isn't associated with mental illness even if only mild. I know that may seem like an offensive argument to some but this is the post-covid age when you can't open your mouth without offending someone. If you argue that locking down the world is crazy and will cause more distress and deaths than not doing so, you cause offence. We have to accept either never to question anything or accept that causing offence to others is not really a problem provided it isn't done for its own sake.

Avatar of IJELLYBEANS

Why do I constantly feel that this forum is coming to an imminent end? 

Avatar of IJELLYBEANS
Optimissed wrote:
DifferentialGalois wrote:
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

If you are to exclude the SS theory solely because of its inadequacy to elucidate the CMB, then that is unjust.

unjust ?...lemme say it a little nicer. its IGNORANT !!

 

Let me say it a tad bit nicer, since I am the creator of that post. It is nescient, too inchoate an idea, disrespectful, unacceptable and only acceptable for those who yearn for the creationist nonsense that the theological implications of the philosophical implications of the Big Bangers that loom over the cosmic theory of the Big Bang. (------ Great sentence structure. 

 It is nescient, too inchoate an idea>>>>

I used to think you could never have too much chocolate. Then high blood sugar followed by much more exercise and guilt feelings regarding chocolate.

Oh wait, you said inchoate.

 

Chocolate is the most inchoate item you could own. 'Tis, after all comprehended by much of the 2 billion children, one of them including me. If there is anything more rudimentary than chocolate, then it is the sine qua non of life, water. (Don't rouse on me, chemists.)

Avatar of ProfYoung
DifferentialGalois wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
DifferentialGalois wrote:
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

If you are to exclude the SS theory solely because of its inadequacy to elucidate the CMB, then that is unjust.

unjust ?...lemme say it a little nicer. its IGNORANT !!

 

Let me say it a tad bit nicer, since I am the creator of that post. It is nescient, too inchoate an idea, disrespectful, unacceptable and only acceptable for those who yearn for the creationist nonsense that the theological implications of the philosophical implications of the Big Bangers that loom over the cosmic theory of the Big Bang. (------ Great sentence structure. 

 It is nescient, too inchoate an idea>>>>

I used to think you could never have too much chocolate. Then high blood sugar followed by much more exercise and guilt feelings regarding chocolate.

Oh wait, you said inchoate.

 

Chocolate is the most inchoate item you could own. 'Tis, after all comprehended by much of the 2 billion children, one of them including me. If there is anything more rudimentary than chocolate, then it is the sine qua non of life, water. (Don't rouse on me, chemists.)

 

Chocolate chip cookies?

Avatar of ProfYoung

Looking back on the last page, I should probably retract my posts. Some of the posts I made are irrelevant. 

Avatar of Optimissed

Yes, we should never make irrelevant posts. There's no such thing as enlarging on the discussion and talking around it perhaps to hit on a useful line of enquiry by chance. We must be clear about that.

Avatar of KingAxelson

By 'irrelevant' do you mean that they were random?  

Avatar of KingAxelson

Addressed to the dear professor by the way..

Avatar of ProfYoung
KingAxelson wrote:

Addressed to the dear professor by the way..

 

Huh. I was anticipating someone to address me as a professor. Perhaps you did not investigate the possibility that I may not be a professor? I presume you would have, but may have thought it somewhat blunt to question my status. happy.png

If I were a decent professor (decent personality-wise), would I include in my chess.com username of all things my status as a professor? Or would I likely abstain from displaying my professor title and merely restricting my username to be simplistic, something like InsolentIgnoramus or CoolCherry?

If I were a sensible professor, would I include irrelevant posts on a forum in chess.com? Or would I wish to preserve my status as a professor and go about the case appropriately. Indeed, there have been some inane professors (I won't name any that particularly stood out), but why would they go to the chess.com forum which contains a compendium of academic remarks and what not? Surely they would be inane enough to completely infest the forums with quirky remarks?

I have not, so presumably I am not inane to an extreme degree. 

And here's one last thing to ponder before I leave:

If I were a professor, would I invest copious time into writing this on a chess.com (of all places) forum?

Avatar of ProfYoung
KingAxelson wrote:

By 'irrelevant' do you mean that they were random?  

 

By irrelevant I mean that they had null connection to the topic at hand. Nothing more than that.

Avatar of KingAxelson
ProfYoung wrote:
KingAxelson wrote:

Addressed to the dear professor by the way..

 

Huh. I was anticipating someone to address me as a professor. Perhaps you did not investigate the possibility that I may not be a professor? I presume you would have, but may have thought it somewhat blunt to question my status.

If I were a decent professor (decent personality-wise), would I include in my chess.com username of all things my status as a professor? Or would I likely abstain from displaying my professor title and merely restricting my username to be simplistic, something like InsolentIgnoramus or CoolCherry?

If I were a sensible professor, would I include irrelevant posts on a forum in chess.com? Or would I wish to preserve my status as a professor and go about the case appropriately. Indeed, there have been some inane professors (I won't name any that particularly stood out), but why would they go to the chess.com forum which contains a compendium of academic remarks and what not? Surely they would be inane enough to completely infest the forums with quirky remarks?

I have not, so presumably I am not inane to an extreme degree. 

And here's one last thing to ponder before I leave:

If I were a professor, would I invest copious time into writing this on a chess.com (of all places) forum?

Professor.. We have physicists here doing just that. Get off your low horse. (I like the CoolCherry one btw)

Avatar of Elroch

Randomness is incomplete knowledge. Modern physics says knowledge is ALWAYS incomplete. This answers the title question.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

and guilt feelings regarding chocolate.

uhhh, we needta talk

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

Ultimately, all discussions are subjective. I've heard it said that people who don't believe in determinism are fooling themselves but the truth is that people who don't understand that all our opinions are subjective are certainly doing so! Yes, there's evidence but we select it and interpret it.

howzit gonna help ?....do u feel imprisoned if its all deterministic ?....are ur exonerated if ur emotions 'force' u do s/t u end up regretting later ? i mean if it makes one happy to feel controlled then fine. i know no one lives in my body (some try few succeed lol !) and i feel better off witha mixa both FW-D. but then ive warmed up2the lead-follow thing. and really ?....i get kinda touchy suspicious when it swings one way too far. yee !

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

and as far as u can do a/t u want if u wannit bad enuf ?...is f***ed up & dishonest. s/w determined out 4u ? id say. i mean who here doesnt have unfulfilled hopes ? i know id kill myself y-day if i wuz alwayz driving on dream street and never in bumpity bump traffic.

Avatar of zborg
Elroch wrote:

Randomness is incomplete knowledge. Modern physics says knowledge is ALWAYS incomplete. This answers the title question.

The typical answer for most binary choices is "both."

"There is no such thing as non-discursive access to truth." (Richard Rorty)

"Words Make the World."  (Stanley Fish)

Avatar of Elroch

In our Universe there are many binary possibilities which we know will be resolved one way or the other but cannot know which. A simple example is transmission through a polarising filter.

Avatar of zborg

Not unlike Maxwell's Demon, (or photons as particles versus waves), or Barrow and Tipler's version of the Anthropic Cosmological Principal. 

Avatar of zborg

Or thee Ghostess's fingernails for that matter.  grin.png 

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