The user Jesse James accused me of using an engine. I beat him 3 straight, and he couldn't believe it. Even though we're both about the same rating. I asked him why he thinks I'm using an engine, and he said because he beat me 2 straight in the past. I said, ok, at least you have reason, though kind of weak. I would have no interest at all copying moves from anything or anybody. But, to answer idreesarif, yes, one would think an engine user would have a higher rating.
Low rated Engine users ?
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i have actually played a low rated engine user - his rating was close to mine and he whooped me in 19 moves 2 games in a row and took the same amount of time for each move even forced moves. i accused him of using an engine and in the middle of our 3rd game i won abruptly. the server discovered he was using an engine and automatically ended the game
From the above stories (and, admittedly, my own experience too) it seems like, that way or another, online chess is sadly largely ruined at this point, as (at least from a perspective of a honorable player) it apparently now more than anything else involves trying to dodge engine users AND trying to dodge unfounded cheating accusations directed at oneself. Kind of like a double-edged sword, but where it's you who's getting cut by both blades at the same time.
By the way, how someone behaves on a chess server seems to reflect their general life attitude and mentality. Individuals who believe that playing fair is for the weak and that the means to achieve an end do not matter for as long as they're effective, seem more inclined to unscrupulously cheat and be otherwise abusive.
I have been accused of using an engine, which is hilarious because I don't play online unless I've consumed large amounts of multiple intoxicants. The game I won as black was horrible, and white was probably winning when he resigned (stupid sac on my part). The rematch, he didn't even look at my threats and got mated in 9 moves! I call these guys double-losers: first they lose the game, then they lose my respect. But they are good for laughs, and I sometimes wonder what the computer evaluation said when they investigated my games. I'll bet the programmers are still chuckling about it.
it is a false notion around chess.com that people with +2000 are most likely cheaters. This is a very unfortunate assumption and is potentially not good for chess.com.
Since last few months I am playing regular here and I believe using engine among 1300-1700 is pretty common.
This problem is pretty severe in live and online tournaments.
I am around 1630 and if I am playing a 1300, I can not say for sure that I will win. You lose to a guys 300-400 rating points lower than you, post game analysis you see that there were packets of 12-15 Houdini top choices moves.
I even have experienced matches where a 799 rated guy defeats 1683 rating and matches and where a 1400 rated guys in so accurate that in post game analysis Rybka/ houdini could come up with only one inaccuracy ( can you believe that 1400 rated guy plays a 35 move game with only one inaccuracy? ).
Sad part is these guys are still very much active .
I do not use an engine because if I did I would be wasting my time. I am here to learn to play better. I have noticed in a few games that my opponent made really stupid opening moves then came back after I was ahead in material with very accurate moves. Beforehand he didnt seem to have a clue.
Ronin-Samurai wrote:
I played a child who lost 5 games in a row prior to playing me and then used an engine against me and admitted it because he said he was tired of losing.
Clearly, he did not perceive any difference between actually winning a game, and cheating his way to "win" a game. The end result was the same to him in both cases, and being faced with the alternative of making an effort to improve his play versus using an engine to have the moves provided to him, he just chose the shorter path.
As mentioned, in most cases a broken chess attitude mostly boils downt to the more general mentality of a person (and in the case of children it may have a lot to do with their upbringing, which in modern times sadly very often has to do with their parents embedding an "anything goes" kind of attitude in them, because "it's a harsh world out there, and they'll need any tricks up their sleeves to survive").
jaaas wrote:
From the above stories (and, admittedly, my own experience too) it seems like, that way or another, online chess is sadly largely ruined at this point, as (at least from a perspective of a honorable player) it apparently now more than anything else involves trying to dodge engine users AND trying to dodge unfounded cheating accusations directed at oneself. Kind of like a double-edged sword, but where it's you who's getting cut by both blades at the same time.
lol that's a nice way to put it. any wonder why titled players mostly play super short time controls?
LoveYouSoMuch wrote:
jaaas wrote:
From the above stories (and, admittedly, my own experience too) it seems like, that way or another, online chess is sadly largely ruined at this point, as (at least from a perspective of a honorable player) it apparently now more than anything else involves trying to dodge engine users AND trying to dodge unfounded cheating accusations directed at oneself. Kind of like a double-edged sword, but where it's you who's getting cut by both blades at the same time.
lol that's a nice way to put it. any wonder why titled players mostly play super short time controls?
...which in turn happens to make things even worse. Most grandmasters are known to not hold blitz/bullet in a very high esteem, and to consider it ruining your chess ability in the long run.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_chess#Criticism
As it is, I'd estimate that over 95% of online chess games are played with blitz time controls, mostly in an effort to try avoiding being cheated upon, but I think that a lack of patience to play longer games on the part of many players also plays a significant role.
well yeah, you can argue that online chess has a bleak future, due to the fact that cheating will only get more widespread and sophisticated. what can we do? :P
LoveYouSoMuch wrote:
well yeah, you can argue that online chess has a bleak future, due to the fact that cheating will only get more widespread and sophisticated. what can we do? :P
True. Sad part is that internet chess is something that revived chess to a great extent since it made playing, sharing and learning easier. :)
jaaas wrote:
As it is, I'd estimate that over 95% of online chess games are played with blitz time controls, mostly in an effort to try avoiding being cheated upon, but I think that a lack of patience to play longer games on the part of many players also plays a significant role.
also on the topic of most played time controls - it's tough to guess the reasons, but that number is a surprisingly good guess. this chart from fics is an interesting view into it.
This, from Wikipedia:
In the Norths Chess Club Centenary Year Under 1600 Tournament a 14-year old boy was caught using what the arbiter called a "hand-held machine" in the toilets. The game was declared lost and the boy was expelled from the tournament. He was using the program Chessmaster on a PlayStation Portable, and that was probably the reason why the moves were not particularly strong. It was the first example of a chess player getting caught while using an electronic device in Australia, and so it quickly became a big story in the relatively small Australian chess community
Unfortunately cheating at chess is becoming more of a problem. I myself have had cause to refer to some players as an "engine user". Is this because I am a sore loser? Possibly, but more to the point when I play someone fairly and lose so be it. My opponent deserves the win. When you play a 1500 rated play who plays like a GM... something is amiss.
It is a fact that GM's and IM's do make inferior moves, they sometimes form plans that may not be the best moves, but still win due to the honest replies from the opponent. Only engines look for the best possible move all of the time. There are a lot of players that play like this and it is easy for players to label them as engine users, as no human is capable of continually playing the best possible move 100% of the time.
Some cheater's even think that playing the second best move the engine comes up with will mean they will go undetected....
The fact is this... I play chess OTB for a local club. I play chess online to improve my own ability. I do not like playing engine user's mainly because if I wanted to play and engine I would not pay chess.com or any other chess provider, I would simply use Fritz or something similar on my computer. When I think I am playing an engine on chess.com, I get annoyed because I want to test myself against another human.
But I take comfort in that fact that long term I will improve,the cheater's? well they ultimately will only cheat themsleves, and will never improve and chess or anything they value in life.
Note to chess users: This cheatign is common place on all chess servers. Chess.com, Chesscube, ICC, FICS, playchess. They all have this problem and continually ban players they suspect as cheaters. It's a losing battle though as the players simply sign up again.
I once stumbled upon an automove program, that uses an engine to automate moves in blitz games! So if you think you're 1 minute blitz game is bullet proof from cheats.....think again!
Anyway, to those players I call an engine user, only you know if you are! If you don't use an engine I apologise, if you do.. well good luck with it...
Mar 25, 2014
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#16
The key is to identify these cheaters and notify others when they reappear. E.g. everyone should know that Yelena Dembo, Bojan Koricanac and Bobby Johnson (Ouachita) are cheaters.
many people in chess.com use engines often or occasionally especially low rated. I've encountered many 900 elo players playing ultra strong and fast without even thinking...
They will often pull out their engines if they see they're up against a much stronger player they otherwise would have pretty much no chance of beating.
For example a 1400- matching a 1600+, is likely to pull out an engine.
It's sad, but true.
I've even had someone admit to me "you're playing against 3000 elo", I didn't report him though but gave him credit for being honest, at last. I've never reported anyone, regardless of how much abuse they've given or how many times they disconnected or let the clock run down. It's not my job to do that and a waste of time in my opinion.
This is a forbidden topic. Chess.com likes to maintain an image of there being no cheaters whatsoever here -- to avoid "anxiety" (--> less business) among players. As anyone who actually has done cheat detection on their opponents can tell, there are cheaters here (like on all chess sites).
There is a dedicated forum for discussing engine cheating.
chesshole wrote:
i have actually played a low rated engine user - his rating was close to mine and he whooped me in 19 moves 2 games in a row and took the same amount of time for each move even forced moves. i accused him of using an engine and in the middle of our 3rd game i won abruptly. the server discovered he was using an engine and automatically ended the game
why do people blame me for cheating?
It's mostly people with low self esteem who can't graciously accept defeat who post crap.