If the universe requires a creator then the creator should require a creator = religion is made-up

My point is that neither side is going to end up winning this argument. So far everybody's argument has basically been: "I'm right and you're wrong. Here's why (use some form of logic). Now if you don't see the logic in that, you're an idiot." This kind of debate will go on and on. Nobody is going to change their beliefs because of something said in a forum. What does it matter to you if people go to church? The only thing you are accomplishing is getting the opposition angry. It's not worth your time to be trying to persuade others on an online forum to change their entire belief system and outlook on life.

The lowliness of my tongue confesseth unto Thy Highness, that Thou madest heaven and earth; this heaven which I see, and this earth that I tread upon, whence is this earth that I bear about me; Thou madest it. But where is that heaven of heavens, O Lord, which we hear of in the words of the Psalm. The heaven of heavens are the Lord’s; but the earth hath He given to the children of men? Where is that heaven which we see not, to which all this which we see is earth? For this corporeal whole, not being wholly every where, hath in such wise received its portion of beauty in these lower parts, whereof the lowest is this our earth; but to that heaven of heavens, even the heaven of our earth, is but earth: yea both these great bodies, may not absurdly be called earth, to that unknown heaven, which is the Lord’s, not the sons’ of men. Saint Augustine Oxfordshire, England Founder of Chessmen of, yes, Oxfordshire Chess in Little Londonderry, UK Provost at Priggishamshire All the ruckus has settled! Ain't that a trip?

Finally! Somebody with sense!

That's for things like "which flavor of ice cream tastes the best."

but when it comes to evolution, the bible, god, etc............there is a right and a wrong.

As in Exodus 21! C'mon, tilting at windmills:).

Ahhhhh, but you assume Im trying to change their beliefs. Sure, that's probably part of it, but to be honest that has never happened..........so I don't deeply believe that its going to happen.

I enter debates for a couple of reasons. 1) to test my own beliefs. To test them and see how strong they are and 2)for entertainment. Where else can you find people willing to say the dumbest things with a straight face?

If changing someone's beliefs happens, then great. But its more about watching an interactive comedy show............since you don't know what excuse they are going to use to try and discredit your evidence/logic.

Its quite hilarious!

Drspholder: there is no right or wrong. It's do you believe in this or that.

I'd rather have cents than sense...

You are welcome to try and prove it doesn't...........since it does not only tell you who to enslave, but where to purchase them from, and how much to pay for them.

And when I said finally someone with sense I was talking about 17rileyc. I didn't see bgjettguitar's post until after I had posted.

But I was trying to reference the difference between a belief that is pure opinion compared to a belief that is based on evidence.

Whether vanilla tastes better than chocolate is a personal opinion and much different than believing whether evolution happened or not.

Fair enough, but both sides of the argument have valid points, at least in their opinion. There is no need to tear them down for their position in the debate. hundreds of millions in the world have religious affiliations, many of them people of prestige. If you are going to debate, use logic, but try to be tactful in the way you say in and with your word choice. Now that's all I have to say about that. Goodnight folks.

Aw shucks! :-)

I will attempt to answer two questions, that's all you get.

1.-Which came first, the chicken or the egg? The answer - YES

2.-Why is man top of the food chain? The answer - well, if he is top of the chain it would be because of adaptability. Not genetic adaptation but social adaptation.

Do I think/believe a god fairy might be real?  No of course not.

Do I know a god fairy might be real? I do not know and neither does anyone else.

Maybe a god exists, which no religion has been able to properly define? I do not know.  Do I believe that's the case? Of course not.

Reptilian creatures have been laying eggs for millions of years before the evolution of the chicken. The egg certainly, without any question, came first.

You ARE full of yourself, aren't you?

Magic of the obvious sort (e.g Avada Kedavra!) is a myth. But I believe we are able to influence our surroundings to some degree...

Adapted from "The Screwtape Letters" by CS Lewis The Deadwood Diaries By B.G. Jett #11 Dear Deadwood, I'll dispense with all the moonshine and get to the politically correct code of conduct those two-legged vermin have fearfully bought into -- lock, stock, and with both barrels! The Enemy whom they celebrate during this 'Winter Break' is no other than Jesus Christ. Oh, how I disdain His name. But the 'Good News' regarding these Christian's gospel, specially round Christmas or rather 'Winter Holidays', is the fear, the sheer terror we get to trenchantly be involved with! Indeed. We're more so invited to take part, aren't we Deadwood? (Laughter) I recall the Enemy's declaration to His dumbfounded disciples very well: "Perfect love casts away all fear." How risibly ridiculous! The agnostic idiots appear to have greater faith than these 'Christ Followers'. Why, just the other day I overheard a quite prominent 'professed Christian, Associate Pastor, and the cowardly Principle of a bucolic high school somewhere close to Clearwater, Washington tell his secretary to send the same memo out to all of the teachers. Would you like to know what it said, Deadwood? Of course you do, you freakishly disgusting muttonheaded mule! It went as follows: "Happy holidays to each of you! As you each know, it is of paramount importance that we abide with such religious tolerance as has always been part of our great nation's constitution. This said, I am asking each of you quite frankly to avoid any decorative accoutrements such as Xmas trees, the mention of God and His Son. You understand our policies charging us to be mindful of the separation of church and state. Again, this policy was part of our nation's constitution. While I am aware that it gained more steam in or about 1939, I'm admonishing each of you to trust me when I tell you it was part of our constitution. After all, I have a Ph.D in Mathematics. Anyway, as you know, we all enjoy teaching and our Board of Education's decision to grant us all a considerable pay raise. Winter Break will end the fifth day of January and I personally want to thank you each in advance for your obedience to our nation's constitutional freedoms and required limitations. As an aside, I ask each of you to keep my son, Jeremiah, in your thoughts as he will remain in Iraq this season as part of the Marine Corps. Also, as most of you know, I'm the Associate Planner, yes, planner at the outfit off of Main Street. Your thoughts are most welcome as I will provide the speech on the eve before all the glory of present opening and delightful libations. Moderation, my colleagues! Merry Seasonal regards, Dr. James Whimsical" (End of note) Need I say more, Deadwood? They'll soon join us below. But be on guard, Deadwood. The Enemy is most clever at this time of year. Put in the minds of the pitiful students that this Dance of Death truly was part of the divided Nation's Constitution. I look forward to meeting Dr. Whimsical soon after the last bit of dirt covers his cowardly casket! (Laughing) Affectionately, Your Uncle Hellsworth

Does God exist? Yes or no! Live with your answer... I heard that a good chess match tees off at 6am or three hours from now. EST. good luck with your final decision being decidedly final. In the backdrop of eternity... Hmmm God speed mate! Cheerio

Amen 'Power_2_the_people' ----- (Intelligent Design) Darwinian evolution has always postulated that all life on earth is descended from a common ancestor, the so-called “tree of life.” Initially, this common ancestry argument relied on physical similarities. Thus, because chimpanzees look a lot like humans, Darwinian evolutionists thought we were closely related. Then researchers discovered and began cataloging DNA (Deoxyribonucleic acid), the so-called “code” that all life uses for genetic information storage. New research is showing that many different biological systems share more similarities than were previously thought. Darwinian evolutionists once again argue this shows decent from a common ancestor. But this is a logical fallacy called a non sequitur (it does not follow). This information could just as easily be explained by a common design. For example, most automobiles have certain characteristics in common with each other. Most are made of metal and move via wheels. Does this mean most automobiles were made by copying the very first car over and over, each time integrating some slight modification? No. We know that automobiles are designed using metal because this material has been found to be the best material for their purpose. It is the same with wheels. So it could be with nature. Biological systems all must function in the environment around them so it isn’t surprising that many biological systems share common characteristics. Another example is the electronic computer. All computers today use binary code (a series of 1’s and 0’s) to function, no matter what system they use to operate, what they are physically made of, or what they can do. Some computers and computer programs even share some of the same binary coding. A word processing program on a personal computer may share some of the same code as a throttle-control computer on a jet fighter. Does this mean that all computers are physical copies (with variations arising from mutations of their binary codes) of the very first computer? No. Different programs use different sequences of binary code to operate, but often share similar code. So far no one has been able to come up with a better system to (Intelligent Design) make computers function. So it could be with biological systems. Biologists often say that DNA looks very much like computer code. Does the presence of similar DNA coding in different biological systems mean they are all directly descended from a common ancestor? Perhaps, but it could just as easily mean these DNA sequences were designed this way because it is the best system to make biological systems function. Finally, the idea of the common ancestry has been dealt a blow in recent years when it was discovered evolutionary “trees” based upon one gene often sharply conflict with trees based upon a different gene.