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Leaving Chess.com due to continued support of Russian Aggression
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Mar 27, 2022
0
#63
Uživatel UnclePeet napsal:
We probably agree on much more than we disagree to be honest
You are probably more concerned that once Putin is done with Ukraine he might turn to other countries
I definitely don’t see that as a possibility I think Russia is broke, demoralized and cannot even hold Ukraine let alone go on a conquest of Europe.
I predict within 3 weeks Kiev will bow to all of Russia’s 6 demands, Turkey said zelensky has already agreed to 4 of them, and Russia will leave saving face.
He has made his point:
He was serious when he said Russia would not tolerate another NATO country on its border.
All of this was entirely predictable and thus avoidable but the west just had to push and push.
Now we have a ton of shiner new weapons floating around Ukraine and most likely, after the conflict, a bunch of different groups with different ideas on how things should operate after the conflict….
This weapons will be someone’s problem very quickly we have seen this time and time again
You are probably more concerned that once Putin is done with Ukraine he might turn to other countries
I definitely don’t see that as a possibility I think Russia is broke, demoralized and cannot even hold Ukraine let alone go on a conquest of Europe.
I predict within 3 weeks Kiev will bow to all of Russia’s 6 demands, Turkey said zelensky has already agreed to 4 of them, and Russia will leave saving face.
He has made his point:
He was serious when he said Russia would not tolerate another NATO country on its border.
All of this was entirely predictable and thus avoidable but the west just had to push and push.
Now we have a ton of shiner new weapons floating around Ukraine and most likely, after the conflict, a bunch of different groups with different ideas on how things should operate after the conflict….
This weapons will be someone’s problem very quickly we have seen this time and time again
yeah.. even i don't see the possibility that Russia would win that war and then attack other countries as real... but better to be sure when its about your lifes and the sooner the Russia go back the less people dies, the less refugees will be here etc..
The Argument that Russia hates NATO weapons right next to their borders is kinda real but what they can do with that? Start a nuclear war? not likely..
Sure it's a problem what cause conflicts but its their problem and when i saw what became from Ukrainians cities i somehow lost any motivation to solving Russians problems... we just not gonna invite here Russian army only because they are so sad that NATO is slowly spreading to them... Sure the NATO and Russian borders is something what should be absoulutely clearly writen somewhere and it should stop changing every flufing month otherwise here will be never paece but it should be solved by discution not by ways ala Putin invasion...
UnclePeet wrote:
Why don’t you cry about it?
I don’t even want a single $ of mine sent to Ukraine.
Ukraine was a corrupt nation a year ago and it remains one today regardless of the media convincing you otherwise. It’s the worlds money laundering pit.
Zelensky is an authoritarian that imprisons political rivals and raids/shuts down press that disagrees with him.
Putin can bomb away for all I care.
There are BRUTAL wars going on right now in africa for territory with human rights abuses eclipsing anything in Ukraine. I wonder why none of you have changed your flags to the flags of those countries?
I don’t even want a single $ of mine sent to Ukraine.
Ukraine was a corrupt nation a year ago and it remains one today regardless of the media convincing you otherwise. It’s the worlds money laundering pit.
Zelensky is an authoritarian that imprisons political rivals and raids/shuts down press that disagrees with him.
Putin can bomb away for all I care.
There are BRUTAL wars going on right now in africa for territory with human rights abuses eclipsing anything in Ukraine. I wonder why none of you have changed your flags to the flags of those countries?
It is so amazing to me how quickly people can come to conclusions. Just a few short years ago (months even) almost everyone recognized how corrupt Ukraine and it's leader is. How their connection and affiliation with Russia ran deep. And why not, they had been part and parcel for many decades. This was brought up at the very beginning of the invasion, which quickly got the topic locked.
Now all of the sudden Ukraine is the hero. So we will send them billions, put the weapons making into overdrive, deplete our already empty treasury to prop up a country that (until a month ago) nobody cared about or even knew where it was. Because, you know, there's no chance all the money and weapons we send over there will ever end up being used on our own soldiers someday.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Mar 27, 2022
0
#65
Uživatel lfPatriotGames napsal:
UnclePeet wrote:
Why don’t you cry about it?
I don’t even want a single $ of mine sent to Ukraine.
Ukraine was a corrupt nation a year ago and it remains one today regardless of the media convincing you otherwise. It’s the worlds money laundering pit.
Zelensky is an authoritarian that imprisons political rivals and raids/shuts down press that disagrees with him.
Putin can bomb away for all I care.
There are BRUTAL wars going on right now in africa for territory with human rights abuses eclipsing anything in Ukraine. I wonder why none of you have changed your flags to the flags of those countries?
I don’t even want a single $ of mine sent to Ukraine.
Ukraine was a corrupt nation a year ago and it remains one today regardless of the media convincing you otherwise. It’s the worlds money laundering pit.
Zelensky is an authoritarian that imprisons political rivals and raids/shuts down press that disagrees with him.
Putin can bomb away for all I care.
There are BRUTAL wars going on right now in africa for territory with human rights abuses eclipsing anything in Ukraine. I wonder why none of you have changed your flags to the flags of those countries?
It is so amazing to me how quickly people can come to conclusions. Just a few short years ago (months even) almost everyone recognized how corrupt Ukraine and it's leader is. How their connection and affiliation with Russia ran deep. And why not, they had been part and parcel for many decades. This was brought up at the very beginning of the invasion, which quickly got the topic locked.
Now all of the sudden Ukraine is the hero. So we will send them billions, put the weapons making into overdrive, deplete our already empty treasury to prop up a country that (until a month ago) nobody cared about or even knew where it was. Because, you know, there's no chance all the money and weapons we send over there will ever end up being used on our own soldiers someday.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
bruh..
what do you mean by that exactly? Idea that Ukrainians will use those weapons against you after the war ends is absolute crazy fiction what doesn't make any sense at all...
and the relatively good Russian-Ukrainian relationships what were there before the maidan and the war are totally dead for at least next hundred years...
Mar 27, 2022
0
#66
Uživatel UnclePeet napsal:
Proof of Ukrainian war crimes
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/03/shocking-videos-allegedly-show-ukrainians-shooting-torturing-russian-pows/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/03/shocking-videos-allegedly-show-ukrainians-shooting-torturing-russian-pows/
it's just a war... it's obvious that both sides will do disgusting cruel things and samely its obvious that both sides will blame for that each other...
If you wanna tell me that Ukrainans aren't so kind godly heros how western media says then sure... they very likely aren't... but they have much much more moral context because they protect their own country, cities, lifes...
And even if we didn't look at the moral site of the thing for my country is just important to they win because of simple pregmatic reasons...
I dont think that you can change my opinion about it
FoxWithNekoEars wrote:
Uživatel UnclePeet napsal:
Proof of Ukrainian war crimes
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/03/shocking-videos-allegedly-show-ukrainians-shooting-torturing-russian-pows/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/03/shocking-videos-allegedly-show-ukrainians-shooting-torturing-russian-pows/
it's just a war... it's obvious that both sides will do disgusting cruel things and samely its obvious that both sides will blame for that each other...
If you wanna tell me that Ukrainans aren't so kind godly heros how western media says then sure... they very likely aren't... but they have much much more moral context because they protect their own country, cities, lifes...
And even if we didn't look at the moral site of the thing for my country is just important to they win because of simple pregmatic reasons...
I dont think that you can change my opinion about it
No need to worry about it.
Lol, even the title of the link admits there's no proof. What the link does indicate, though is that some posters here are bona fide bow-tie wearing Tucker Carlson fans. The crazier the narrative gets, the easier it is to recognize those who parrot the dubious talking points of what Fox lawyers have argued is a show only for entertainment, not news.
MGleason wrote:
Those who want to block all Russian members, please address this point.
It is very hard to get news of what is actually going on in Ukraine into Russia. The government completely controls virtually all the media. Independent news sources have either shut down or censored themselves on the subject, and those who fail to do so they face a prison sentence of up to 15 years. It is nearly impossible for Russians in Russia to safely spread the news of what is actually going on.
However, social media is one way to circumvent this total control of the news media. People who are in Russia can learn what is really happening through social media. That may be the only method they have. If you cut them off from social media, you cut them off from independent news, leaving them with nothing to counter the government propaganda.
Chess.com is different from McDonald's, Microsoft, WWE, and other businesses that have completely cut all ties with Russia. Chess.com is a chess site, but it's also a social media site. There are a lot of Russian people on here, and a lot of them have non-Russian friends here on the site. Many of them have Ukrainian friends here on chess.com. Some of them will inevitably be discussing current events with their friends - and thus obtaining news that they cannot obtain from other sources, information that counters the propaganda they are getting from their government.
As a result, chess.com is actually playing a small but potentially valuable role in helping to get accurate information into Russia. This information can contribute to countering propaganda, possibly leading to Russian citizens forcing a change in government policy (even authoritarian governments sometimes change unpopular policies in an attempt to prevent a popular uprising).
If all Russian members are blocked from the site, you will cut off this source of information. As a result, you may actually be hurting the goal of changing Russia's behaviour.
Is that really what you want? How else do you propose to get accurate news from Ukraine into Russia?
You raise some good points. Just like your other comments, worth considering.
First, the government of Russia does control much of their media. But, this is 2022, not 1982. Russians have access to all sorts of news, reports, media. As someone else mentioned, things like VPNs, youtube, and various other social medias are available. But probably most importantly, they have cell phones. They talk to their friends and family in Ukraine and know exactly what is going on. Over 90% of Russians have cell phones. And they probably use them.
Wikipedia says chess.com is a social networking website. So I agree it makes sense for something of this magnitude to be addressed not only here, but on every available social platform. But as the moderators have made VERY clear, discussion of the war is not allowed, at least in any way they disagree with. Which is exactly how the topic is approached in certain countries. The topic can be discussed, but only as long as those in charge agree with what is being said. Hmmm.
So it's difficult to determine exactly what chess.com's position is. One the one hand, they say they support Ukraine. On the other hand, they continue to support Russia by providing services. On the one hand, they say no talk of the war is allowed. On the other hand they say social networking is very important for getting accurate information to ordinary Russians.
My guess is they don't know what to do, and like a lot of people are feeling their way along, processing information as they get it, and making the best decisions they can. Even if those decisions are inadequate at best.
Mar 27, 2022
0
#69
Uživatel lfPatriotGames napsal:
MGleason wrote:
Those who want to block all Russian members, please address this point.
It is very hard to get news of what is actually going on in Ukraine into Russia. The government completely controls virtually all the media. Independent news sources have either shut down or censored themselves on the subject, and those who fail to do so they face a prison sentence of up to 15 years. It is nearly impossible for Russians in Russia to safely spread the news of what is actually going on.
However, social media is one way to circumvent this total control of the news media. People who are in Russia can learn what is really happening through social media. That may be the only method they have. If you cut them off from social media, you cut them off from independent news, leaving them with nothing to counter the government propaganda.
Chess.com is different from McDonald's, Microsoft, WWE, and other businesses that have completely cut all ties with Russia. Chess.com is a chess site, but it's also a social media site. There are a lot of Russian people on here, and a lot of them have non-Russian friends here on the site. Many of them have Ukrainian friends here on chess.com. Some of them will inevitably be discussing current events with their friends - and thus obtaining news that they cannot obtain from other sources, information that counters the propaganda they are getting from their government.
As a result, chess.com is actually playing a small but potentially valuable role in helping to get accurate information into Russia. This information can contribute to countering propaganda, possibly leading to Russian citizens forcing a change in government policy (even authoritarian governments sometimes change unpopular policies in an attempt to prevent a popular uprising).
If all Russian members are blocked from the site, you will cut off this source of information. As a result, you may actually be hurting the goal of changing Russia's behaviour.
Is that really what you want? How else do you propose to get accurate news from Ukraine into Russia?
You raise some good points. Just like your other comments, worth considering.
First, the government of Russia does control much of their media. But, this is 2022, not 1982. Russians have access to all sorts of news, reports, media. As someone else mentioned, things like VPNs, youtube, and various other social medias are available. But probably most importantly, they have cell phones. They talk to their friends and family in Ukraine and know exactly what is going on. Over 90% of Russians have cell phones. And they probably use them.
Wikipedia says chess.com is a social networking website. So I agree it makes sense for something of this magnitude to be addressed not only here, but on every available social platform. But as the moderators have made VERY clear, discussion of the war is not allowed, at least in any way they disagree with. Which is exactly how the topic is approached in certain countries. The topic can be discussed, but only as long as those in charge agree with what is being said. Hmmm.
So it's difficult to determine exactly what chess.com's position is. One the one hand, they say they support Ukraine. On the other hand, they continue to support Russia by providing services. On the one hand, they say no talk of the war is allowed. On the other hand they say social networking is very important for getting accurate information to ordinary Russians.
My guess is they don't know what to do, and like a lot of people are feeling their way along, processing information as they get it, and making the best decisions they can. Even if those decisions are inadequate at best.
Sorry but i don't consider chess site operation as supporting Russia at all. It has just no economical impacts more likely more money go out of Russia for things like memberships etc.
Argument that you cant talk here about the war is just false. Firstly there are many clubs where you can talk about litterally anything without cc moderating and secondly there is not a day when some random person wouldn't make a public forum about it. Sure cc mods lock them but they are not so fast with locking that. This thread itself is a great example of that.
How people could even think that they can somehow demage Russian war actions by banning them from a chess site? Do you think that they try to invent here on the 64 chess squares some new great military strategies and then use them in Ukraine? or just how are you imagining it?
This trying banning Russian users is just an idiotic way how people pour out their anger at somebody nothing more...
I certainly agree that Russian players should be temporarily removed from chess.com
Mar 27, 2022
0
#71
Uživatel somonenamedmason napsal:
I certainly agree that Russian players should be temporarily removed from chess.com
Sigh...
have you some actually reason for that?
Mar 27, 2022
0
#72
I'm surprised chesscom hasn't locked this yet, anyways I don't know what you want an online chess website to do about this, it's not like Putin is gonna retreat once he realizes he can no longer play internet chess anymore.
Mar 28, 2022
0
#73
Uživatel CooloutAC napsal:
FoxWithNekoEars wrote:
Uživatel UnclePeet napsal:
Proof of Ukrainian war crimes
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/03/shocking-videos-allegedly-show-ukrainians-shooting-torturing-russian-pows/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/03/shocking-videos-allegedly-show-ukrainians-shooting-torturing-russian-pows/
it's just a war... it's obvious that both sides will do disgusting cruel things and samely its obvious that both sides will blame for that each other...
If you wanna tell me that Ukrainans aren't so kind godly heros how western media says then sure... they very likely aren't... but they have much much more moral context because they protect their own country, cities, lifes...
And even if we didn't look at the moral site of the thing for my country is just important to they win because of simple pregmatic reasons...
I dont think that you can change my opinion about it
Well said! And to quote the great Gary Kasparov from his book Winter is Coming. "We must never lose sight of who is the offender and who is the victim! If we fail to maintain this basic moral balance of what is right and what is wrong, we are too vulnerable to propaganda"
As for why it seems most Russian people are silent on the subject or seem to support Putin. As Patriot said above its 2022 and we can't put it all on their state media. Although living in fear of criticizing their government could have alot to do with it. Let me quote Bobby Fischer's Mother, Regina, who once wrote to him in a letter when he was becoming very anti semetic and hateful.
She said "...That's what the people in Nazi Germany did while people were being tortured and murdered, children gassed to death like vermin. It was more convenient not to want to hear about it or talk about it because then their conscience would have made them do something about it"
i agree with you with many things but i don't agree with banning Russian users from this site. Firstly its not fault of the normal people. Its not like that they could much influence political events in a country what instantly sends any oposition in a jail. Saying that "If my country did so cruel things I would protests and fight for freedom." seems to me as an insincere boasting.
If you look at any other war from recent history, In the Iraq or just some other.. (Sure i understand that you are already sick of how people still pulling out Iraq but i wanna compared it here only from citizens perspective...)
In any of those wars nobody could even imagine that somebody would ban Americans (or just another agressor side..) from some websites etc..
Nobody was swearing to them. (only some Arab people but its not like they would have some influance..)
It serves to the honor of Americans that some of them actually did protest against the war but i dont think it was somehow too many people and the government kinda didnt much care.. And it was America one of the most "free places in the world". Yeah maybe they helped to quit the war a bit sooner... but its not like that they would do much
The point is that they really could protest and nobody sent them to the jail like in todays Russia. That fear what you are talking about is much more easier to get when you know that if you say something too loud the police will use you as a punching bag...
I understand that this war is leaded by economical ways and i fully agree with putting Russia in economical isolation, with supporting people who fight against Russia army etc. But a chess site is no one from those two things. There is no point to distancing from russia people in terms of chatting, talking, playing games, sharing information. One wise person once said that if everyone had one real friend in every country there would be no wars.
Mar 28, 2022
0
#74
@unclepeet over here parroting pro-Russia propaganda... I'm not surprised.
Mar 28, 2022
0
#75
lfPatriotGames wrote: Even if those decisions are inadequate at best.
It's a fking chess website. What would be an "adequate" decision for them to make about a war on the other side of the planet?
And while I agree businesses are feckless greedy pricks, so many people are talking so much nonsense. Making a statement condemning the war wasn't enough? IMO it was too much. First of all it's intensely insincere. The only reason to make such a statement is to protect profits against the wrath of the mindless masses. The type you see in the forums calling for bans of this or that. Secondly, the war is none of chess.com's business, and none of our business to care what Erik and company thinks.
Mar 28, 2022
0
#76
lfPatriotGames wrote:
The innocent Russian citizen, who has nothing to do with the actions of his leader, and even opposes his leader, isn't the target of all these countries and businesses cutting off ties and being banned.
. . .
Who... who do you think they're targeting? Do you think Putin will become so upset that he can't get a big mac that he'll call off the war?
Making ordinary citizens miserable is exactly the point, because that destabilizes Putin's power.
And I think that's a very good alternative solution to, you know, WWIII... but chess.com is not McDonalds. They're a relatively small business with zero impact on international events.
“Its about the free world coming together in unity, against the closest we've ever been to the destruction that HItler caused, in our lifetimes. Contrary to what some believe, This is not an exaggeration.”
It is the most ridiculous exaggeration I have seen in recent memory and you should be ashamed of parroting this absolute nonsense.
If Putin lives to be a hundred he could not kill as many civilians as the Americans and British did in the iraq war over pretend weapons that never existed.
You’re comparing Hitler, a man who’s actions killed millions upon millions to the casualties in Ukraine?
You make me sick to my stomach.
The UN(unlike you and CNN) requires PROOF of civilian deaths…you know what the UN civilian death toll is as of 16 hours ago?
1,119
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-civilian-death-toll-reaches-1119-un-2022-03-27/
And they are LIKELY higher but you should be ashamed of yourself for comparing it to Hitler
It is the most ridiculous exaggeration I have seen in recent memory and you should be ashamed of parroting this absolute nonsense.
If Putin lives to be a hundred he could not kill as many civilians as the Americans and British did in the iraq war over pretend weapons that never existed.
You’re comparing Hitler, a man who’s actions killed millions upon millions to the casualties in Ukraine?
You make me sick to my stomach.
The UN(unlike you and CNN) requires PROOF of civilian deaths…you know what the UN civilian death toll is as of 16 hours ago?
1,119
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-civilian-death-toll-reaches-1119-un-2022-03-27/
And they are LIKELY higher but you should be ashamed of yourself for comparing it to Hitler
Mar 28, 2022
0
#79
I kinda have to agree with Peet in this.. the medial view is biased. In Iraq died hundreds of thousnds civilians and western media cared much less. That's not a Russian propaganda but clear straight numbers what can anybody look up. So looking at it as "biggest war since ww2" is wrong.
However thousend of innocent deaths is still terrible and we dont even talk about all the destroyed cities and material demage. You can say that Russian army are real gentlemens who only gonna bomb your city but if you dont have bad luck for being somewhere at wrong time, you can get out of there alive.. probably... Yeah thats very nice. Hmm.. I dont know why but still i kinda dont wanna see these kind gentlemens in my street...
So yeah you are right Peet western media aren't 100% objective. But be very sure that the russian media are baised even much more.
What you said cant change the fact who is victim in this conflict and it cant change on which side of this new iron curtain is me or my country...
But maybe it would be nice if it helps to some people to dont look at ordinary russian citizens as evil demons from hell how i have seen that some stupid people describe them here sometimes...
You are probably more concerned that once Putin is done with Ukraine he might turn to other countries
I definitely don’t see that as a possibility I think Russia is broke, demoralized and cannot even hold Ukraine let alone go on a conquest of Europe.
I predict within 3 weeks Kiev will bow to all of Russia’s 6 demands, Turkey said zelensky has already agreed to 4 of them, and Russia will leave saving face.
He has made his point:
He was serious when he said Russia would not tolerate another NATO country on its border.
All of this was entirely predictable and thus avoidable but the west just had to push and push.
Now we have a ton of shiner new weapons floating around Ukraine and most likely, after the conflict, a bunch of different groups with different ideas on how things should operate after the conflict….
This weapons will be someone’s problem very quickly we have seen this time and time again