wow nirvana is actually a word? I always thought it was just a band. 😂
nirvana & meditation
Sort:
0
#83
tomtrytostay wrote:
Trysts 80.
You're smarter than I but I'll try to keep up .
I'm thinking this idea of a true self to me is about being entirely separate from outside influence. So not a conditioned self . Nor even perhaps a self related to physical needs .
You're smarter than I but I'll try to keep up .
I'm thinking this idea of a true self to me is about being entirely separate from outside influence. So not a conditioned self . Nor even perhaps a self related to physical needs .
Don't be confused by philosophical terminology that I've read enough of to kind of understand to me being smarter than anyone else on earth, Tom. I don't:)
The emboldened statement above is probably what other philosophers like David Hume rejected--that there is such a thing, a "self" as an almost mystical thing, pre-formed prior to outside influence. I don't believe in that. I never read any eastern philosophy, I've only read western philosophy, but "nirvana" sounds like it can also be a drug-induced state of mind, and not necessarily achieved through meditation?
tomism #149..."If I can't make sense of it, it is nonsense"
tomism #150... "I am so confused, but I do know everything is love.
tomism #192... Everything in the universe is "natural" i.e. not created by God.
,
Several different "vehicles" are used in meditation. When the vehicle reaches the end of the road it shuts off. The mind becomes free of of thought. (Most thought is random, useless meandering of the mind. More so in some. Others can be more focused). Allowing the mind and body to "rest", to reach a state of being outside the normal waking state has many benifits. It is difficult to place into words. A reason why there are varying descriptions of the results. But it is real , it does exist and is medically measured in body changes and measurements of brain activity.
Unfortunately for tom and others, their misconceptions prohibit them from comprehending meditation.
An example is tom (per his usual way)describes chanting, noise pounding in his ears as meditation. Nothing is farther from the truth.
Preconceived biased makes it impossible for them to even begin down a path towards enlightenment. It is a sad and confusing life for those so closed minded, never freeing their minds of bias and denial.
0
#86
Sleeping does wonders for the body. Why is it that meditation is more esteemed than sleep for you, mdinnerspace?
Absolutely. Sleep is necessary for the mind and body. Less is understood of it than meditation. Although comparisons can be made, they are very different. In meditation a person remains conscious although in a different state than the normal waking one. Sleep is more like an unconscious state. I do not propose to understand much about sleep except that I I often have dreams of big waves in Hawaii.
Not sure by what is meant by esteemed. Everybody needs to sleep. Few practice meditation.
0
#91
"Nirvana" is a pretty specific Sanskrit term, adapted from the Pali "Nibbana" (the language of the original Gautama Buddha), loosely translated as "extinguishment".
It's a state of being free of desires, i.e. not wanting to be in contact with that which one is not in contact with, and also not wanting to not be in contact with that which one is in contact with.
According to Buddhist texts, it can only be reached by comprehending the "Four Noble Truths" (which deliniate the pervasive discontent inherent in conditioned being) and following the "Eightfold Path" (right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right work, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration).
If any one of these elements of the path is not adhered to, Nirvana cannot be attained.
While some drug states can mimic the experience of Nirvana, and perhaps provide a glimpse of what one is aiming for, it's not a true state of enightenment, because the drug must wear off, and one must "descend" rapidly back to ordinary conciousness, which can be quite an unpleasant experience.
What is being described re meditation leading to a state of "no thought" is not equivalent to Nirvana as such, but is known as "Nirvikalpa Samadhi" in Sanskrit, and is the first of the higher stages of Samadhi (bliss).
Samadhi, until the final stage is reached (Satchidananda) is temporary by nature, and therefore inherently not a true representation of what Nirvana is like, or so I've heard. 
Reaching a state of "No thought" is but a steping stone on the journey.
It is a start. All roads begin and end somewhere, or... nowhere
A begger enters a monestary and becomes a monk. He studies and practices the teachings for many years. He comes to be "enlightened". At which time he gathers up his worldly possessions (they fill a small bag which he carries on a pole over a shoulder) and returns to the outside world to become... a begger once again.
0
#94
"Before enlightenment, if the phone rings, answer the phone.
After enlightenment, if the phone rings, answer the phone."
Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind
Lucien is quite right in the description of "Nirvana" as it was originally meant. The states of mind leading there are temporary in nature. I think it quite impossible to permantly live in a state of nirvana.
On the other hand "enlightenment" (if it can be truly achieved) is of permanent nature.
Meditation is but a tool, a vehicle, one of many steps in the quest for achieving nirvana and enlightenment.
These terms often are incorrectly interchanged and misunderstood. They get interpreted differently by cultures, religeon and seekers of knowledge. The "original" meanings , taken from the language they were written from, work the best imo.
I have been around people who claim to be in "bliss" all the time. They're up there, floating around in the ether, oblivious it appears to anything worldly. Talk about "wierdos"? Hehe
Meditation is generally taught to be practiced for a short period of time, twice a day for those in the initial stage. If not taught by a qualified "teacher" and practiced incorrectly for too long a time, actual damage is done to one's mind.
To tell it like it is, I see this happening with tom. He claims to be off "meditating" in his own misguided way. Yet I observe more contratictions, confusion in his questions and responses. I know it is "harse" to tell him seek help/guidance. But what is to be said? Sooner than latter if he he doesn't wake up all will be lost. Maybe already is.
The form of meditation to which Till refers (not having any thoughts -- perhaps focusing on your breathing only) is indeed ridiculously hard at first. Most people will need to practice. it helps with many things, such as relaxation and concentration. A teacher forced me into detention....she made me stay after school and stare at the flame of a candle...(I was talking during class and not paying attention -- getting poor grades in her class.) She actually helped me, although I am not sure about the legality of her actions. She was trying to help, so that I would concentrate more.
0
#100
Till_98 wrote:
Tom it is not my problem when you get frustrated. I and many others told you already like 100 times what the purpose of meditation and having no thoughts is, especially in your other threads... Although you are very friendly it seems to me that you don´t even try to understand what others tell you. For example what I said earlier was that in eastern philosophy the mind is not seen as yourself. You rather use it as a tool which you can "turn on" if you want to put it like this. Because most people can not stop thinking even if they try (which is also the reason why meditating is not as easy as one might thing) their mind controls them because it constantly puts thoughts in their consciousness. In that moment where you realize your thoughts they disappear and you reach a higher form of consciousness. This state of consciousness is in old eastern philosophy called "enlightenment". It´s a state of pure self and being in the moment.
By the way what Chicken_Monster said is also very correct, I just googled meditation and there are indeed several "types" of meditation. Maybe you could just read the wikipedia article yourself ;).
well my friend I sure read this carefully and it was beautiful to read.
How about one last time from you? Why is it beneficial?
Is it because as you say that then the mind becomes a tool rather than a controlling force? You're saying that we can have freedom?
If we can then what purpose will this true self tend to follow? Is there a trend about that or does it vary?
What's the goal once you are enlightened or do goals become meaningless?
Please Sign Up to comment.
If you need help, please contact our Help and Support team.
Nirvana is the supreme state of being where u are at a level above the human conciousness.Blissful state it is said,free from the troubles of the mind.Meditation is a way to achieve nirvana.By the way which medication are u on,its bringing results...;)