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Avatar of Optimissed
badger_song wrote:

Eldred_Woodcock and Fester,of course I'm speaking in hyperbolye to make a point,but the exaggeration aside,the point has truth to it.Most Americans,using their native language are unable to write a technical memo, let alone something non-technical that must be very precise and accurate. Most Americans couldn't definition of a sine, cosine or tangent -- let alone define a mathmatical function or demonstrate how to solve one.. If you cannot,at a minimum do those things,you are practically innumerate for the 21 st century. If you are innumerate ,you are probably scientifically illiterate as well,so why would anyone expect the average person on the street to understand the complexities of todays problems that are rooted in science. Finally,the Grand Old Party ran a VP in 2008 who boasted of their own ignorance.The party today attacks any expert who holds opposing views as an "elite" as if being an expert is a liability, as well as being anti-intellectual in spirit.The fact that Conservatives elect Boebert,Greene,King,Stefanik,and others( its a long list) says alot about how they view actual technical,scientific,or academic expertise.If you search the web for looney NY Congresswoman, you will get a republican conservative.So yes,I think America is,when talking about the mass of the population, an utter mediocrity when it comes to native English skills, barely scientifically literate ,and all but innumerate---We the People, are an utter mediocrity.

You're less mediocre than some of them here but on the whole it doesn't look good.

Avatar of Optimissed
mpaetz wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
Festerthetester wrote:

In America we don't indict a whole family for the action of one member.

You possibly should though, because bad behaviour is caused usually by bad parenting. If a child needs psychotherapy, it is always the parents who really need it.

Don't be so hard on your mum and dad.

Haha they weren't bad parents but maybe not the best. However, I'm not behaving badly, The worst I'm doing is boring some people to death, which is a bit amusing. Do you play marbles?

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Avatar of Festerthetester
alexlehrersh wrote:
Eldred_Woodcock hat geschrieben:
MarkoHoog wrote:

Possibly, in Europe neighbouring countries share somewhat similar cultures probably due to their interconnected history, in the past many invaded each other and some used to be one larger country.

I wanted to type something longer but I'm out of time so this is all you get.

We're big and after the Civil War the west was wide open for expansion. Millions of immigrants flooded both shores and created enclaves. Some still exist. New ones form over time as more and other immigrants arrive. We take in a lot of people from all over.

nope it wasnt. You forced your way

This is a true statement. A serious fallacy in the teachings of American history in the past is that the west was a wide open expanse of land ripe for the taking. The missing part of that history are the few million or so natives who had lived there for 25,000 years.

However, aside from the original migratory peoples who left the jungles to expand to the colder northern climes, every civilization expanded to places previously occupied by others. There is nothing unique about the way the western hemisphere was repopulated by Europeans.

Avatar of badger_song

Best way to look at the English Language is that it and the broad group called "Germanic languages" all evolved from the same ancient language. They are all distant cousins. Once you study them and become fluent it becomes quite obvious that they are all related.

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
Optimissed wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Eldred_Woodcock wrote:
Wits-end wrote:

Just curious, do you live in an area that is experiencing a lot of new construction requiring new wells?

That's why I mentioned testing the input water before going off on that galvanic jaunt. Air can't be entering the pressurized side. It must be coming from the input.

And that's why it's so puzzling. I sent an email yesterday about what Hiram and Opti said and no response. I know it's a busy time of year for them. The capacity is great, the water level in the ground is great. We have all kinds of water, that's not the problem. When they pulled the pump out to inspect it, the just pumped water onto the ground, about 20 gallons a minute. Almost the identical amount when everything is hooked up and running.

We now know for a fact that air is not entering the input side. It's entering the pressurized side. Just trying to figure out how something impossible is happening.

Imo it can only be an effect of turbulence. How wide is the output pipe? If it's quite wide and not too long, there could be a sort of whirlpool effect in the pipe where there's a vortex, which is a kind of semi-turbulence. Especially if the pumping isn't constant but is switched on and off, under some fluid flow conditions it may be that the vortex can carry air bubbles backwards against the general flow. This is of course a complete guess, not knowing the exact conditions or even nature of the problem.

I once got into discussion with a local man, about 15 years ago, who was trying to fix a BSA Gold Star, which he'd been trying to fix for weeks. He'd had mechanics and all sorts of other semi-experts. I asked him if I could have a look at it, went home and put some old clothes on and spent three hours with it. Using logic to tell me where to look, I found an extremely slight distortion to the magneto armature which was setting up a sympathetic vibration in the contact breaker and se-setting it, so that it would always cut out after a few seconds of running. I told him to change the magneto or the magneto armature. He had a spare, put it on and it worked. Then he gave me another to fix and that was quite tricky until I found it would only work when the back brake was on. Then it was a simple matter of logistics to find that the coil (this one was coil ignition and not magneto) had been wired through the brake light switch on the brake pedal. It turned out he was a millionaire and our ensuing friendship which lasts to this day was and is useful to me. Just shows that doing things for nothing has its rewards. I'm pretty good with mechanical things, except with the trolls here. Can't fix them at all.

I have no idea what any of that means. But turbulence does make sense, more than anything else at least because they've eliminated everything else. The output side is about 2 inches maybe 1 1/2 inches. As for the other question, the pump was replaced in 2020 and it's been working fine for almost 3 years. Just recently, without any warning, did the system start taking on air.

And are you saying that the air gets into the pump and that there's no way it can get in from the input side? How many gallons a minute does it pump? That's quite a wide pipe and that means that depending on the pumping rate, there might be more turbulence the slower it was pumping. Any cracks in the exit pipe or bad seal at the junction between the pump and the pipe? Is the pump pumping downhill or uphill? If it's pumping downhill and the flow rate isn't high, that would immediately explain it. Turbulence at the exit of the pipe might allow air bubbles in, which would travel uphill against the flow simply because air bubbles rise and it would occur naturally, with no need for turbulence in the pipe. However, my sneaking suspicion is that the pipe is too wide for the power of the pump and basically the problem will be traced to that. If it's pumping uphill, it must be due to turbulence in the pipe. If there's a tiny crack in the pipe, there's something called the Bernoulli Effect where the flow itself creates low pressure in the pipe, which would draw air in. Turbulence might be created by a pump that's running roughly. If you think about a car's exhaust, the cross section of the exhaust pipe can dramatically affect the mixture intake and in a bad case can wreck the car engine. That's all about back pressure and co-ordination between exhaust pulses. If it results in a weak mixture entering the combustion chamber, that results in excessive heat which could even result in a seized piston ring and ultimately a seized piston. Just drawing a parallel of how defects in an outlet can result in intake problems.

No, from what I understand the pump, the motor, the controls, the water level, amount of water, etc., everything on the supply side have nothing to do with it. So air is not getting into the pump. The pump works perfectly. The amount of water is great, and it appears the controls work like they are supposed to.

The problem is air ( a LOT of air) is getting into the pressure tank, and it appears it's coming in from the outlet. The pressurized side that goes to the house. It's just that nobody has figured out how that's happening, or how to fix it.

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
Festerthetester wrote:

In the case of the endless discussion on said water pump: I will repeat ad nauseam, air is not "leaking" into the tank. The tank air is pressurized ergo pushes against anything trying to enter. The air is simply expanding to reach normal atmospheric pressure. This can only happen if the water is

a - leaking out and the pressure switch is not detecting the lower water pressure, possibly intermittently.

b - the water is leaking internally from the tank through the pump back into the well but would still indicate a bad switch.

The switch costs $30. Everything else has been replaced. What is the issue? Replace the switch.

PS. For your own sanity, ignore the turbulance master behind the curtain.

Nobody knows yet how air is getting into the tank. The plumber admitted that it is impossible, yet is also happening. Quite the predicament. Unless everyone is hallucinating, which is unlikely, it is actually happening.

You are right, the tank is pressurized and I suppose that means it's pushing against anything trying to enter the exit side.

a) it's not the pressure switch leaking because it would be obvious. There are no leaks anywhere near the tank. Bone dry everywhere.

b) it's not leaking internally back to the pump because there are check valves that prevent it. This was the very first thing they suspected, so they pulled the pump and motor out of the well. Every piece, every part, is working perfectly. The "switch" is just a sensor that detects pressure at the tank and relays it to the controls. It's a sub drive, so it's not the type of switch that was shown in a picture here earlier. The pressure sensor, switch, motor, pump, controls, checkvalves, literally everything that contributes to pumping water is working perfectly as it should. We have plenty of water.

The problem is there is too much air. They did get back to me and they did say that it could be possible that there is suction on the exit side from a leak. Which is what Hiram and Optimissed said. It remains to be seen if such a leak can be identified and if that's really the problem. I don't really see how that could happen, but SOMETHING is happening.

Avatar of PeaceandLove2U

Avatar of badger_song

Peace ,thats a unique rendition of Dream On,well done.

Avatar of Sillver1

“I'm not behaving badly, The worst I'm doing is boring some people to death”

hey pink.. how did red and blue ended up strongholding you to such a funny thread? lol.. nm.. happy right whaling to ya.. lol

Avatar of Festerthetester
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Festerthetester wrote:

In the case of the endless discussion on said water pump: I will repeat ad nauseam, air is not "leaking" into the tank. The tank air is pressurized ergo pushes against anything trying to enter. The air is simply expanding to reach normal atmospheric pressure. This can only happen if the water is

a - leaking out and the pressure switch is not detecting the lower water pressure, possibly intermittently.

b - the water is leaking internally from the tank through the pump back into the well but would still indicate a bad switch.

The switch costs $30. Everything else has been replaced. What is the issue? Replace the switch.

PS. For your own sanity, ignore the turbulance master behind the curtain.

Nobody knows yet how air is getting into the tank. The plumber admitted that it is impossible, yet is also happening. Quite the predicament. Unless everyone is hallucinating, which is unlikely, it is actually happening.

You are right, the tank is pressurized and I suppose that means it's pushing against anything trying to enter the exit side.

a) it's not the pressure switch leaking because it would be obvious. There are no leaks anywhere near the tank. Bone dry everywhere.

b) it's not leaking internally back to the pump because there are check valves that prevent it. This was the very first thing they suspected, so they pulled the pump and motor out of the well. Every piece, every part, is working perfectly. The "switch" is just a sensor that detects pressure at the tank and relays it to the controls. It's a sub drive, so it's not the type of switch that was shown in a picture here earlier. The pressure sensor, switch, motor, pump, controls, checkvalves, literally everything that contributes to pumping water is working perfectly as it should. We have plenty of water.

The problem is there is too much air. They did get back to me and they did say that it could be possible that there is suction on the exit side from a leak. Which is what Hiram and Optimissed said. It remains to be seen if such a leak can be identified and if that's really the problem. I don't really see how that could happen, but SOMETHING is happening.

You are misreading. I did not suggest the switch is leaking I said it is intermittently not working. You have a submerged pump. Fine. That changes the physical picture but none of the function. With a submerged pump all the piping is under pressure. Any break, crack, loose fitting would leak water out not air in.

The pressure switch is bad.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

I'm just reading some of your stuff lost in the mists of yesterday. You aren't half a liar, you know. Oh, I suppose you do know.

I was talking about this "Z" reference:

"Briefly, a word about your heroes, Z and F. Neither of them very bright..."

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/off-topic/socialism-on-chess-com-81943753?page=193#comment-93411151

So, I'm not so much a liar as you are displaying here both blindness and arrogance, being prone to insult people so often you cannot even remember hours later. Your behavior is also just...well, incompetent seems the only fair word, to be in discussion like this with civilized human beings if you cannot remember your fits of temper and vitriol from one moment to the next...

Avatar of Optimissed
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

I'm just reading some of your stuff lost in the mists of yesterday. You aren't half a liar, you know. Oh, I suppose you do know.

I was talking about this "Z" reference:

"Briefly, a word about your heroes, Z and F. Neither of them very bright..."

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/off-topic/socialism-on-chess-com-81943753?page=193#comment-93411151

So, I'm not so much a liar as you are displaying here both blindness and arrogance, being prone to insult people so often you cannot even remember hours later. Your behavior is also just...well, incompetent seems the only fair word, to be in discussion like this with civilized human beings if you cannot remember your fits of temper from one moment to the next...

Maybe you're just a ridiculous, sad git? happy.png

Avatar of Optimissed

I don't have fits of temper, you incurable twerp. I just read the rubbish you write and sometimes I ignore it and sometimes I answer it.

Avatar of Festerthetester

Good defense. When out of actual thoughts, insult.

Avatar of PeaceandLove2U
badger_song wrote:

Peace ,thats a unique rendition of Dream On,well done.

Yeah, such nice vocals to

Avatar of Festerthetester
Optimissed wrote:

I don't have fits of temper, you incurable twerp. I just read the rubbish you write and sometimes I ignore it and sometimes I answer it.

Reads like a temper tantrum to me.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

I'm just reading some of your stuff lost in the mists of yesterday. You aren't half a liar, you know. Oh, I suppose you do know.

I was talking about this "Z" reference:

"Briefly, a word about your heroes, Z and F. Neither of them very bright..."

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/off-topic/socialism-on-chess-com-81943753?page=193#comment-93411151

So, I'm not so much a liar as you are displaying here both blindness and arrogance, being prone to insult people so often you cannot even remember hours later. Your behavior is also just...well, incompetent seems the only fair word, to be in discussion like this with civilized human beings if you cannot remember your fits of temper from one moment to the next...

Maybe you're just a ridiculous, sad git?

Yes, I know, you have no defense for missing the obvious and then making such a boneheaded post....just go away and come back tomorrow and pretend you didn't hang yourself out to dry, like you always do.

Avatar of Optimissed
Festerthetester wrote:

Good defense. When out of actual thoughts, insult.

You're just as silly. There's no point trying to be polite to people like you because you would constantly use insults whether I ignored you, answered you politely or insulted you, just as you've both ALWAYS done to others. That's because you're mentally ill trolls who deliberately start arguments with people. "Hypocrites" isn't the word for you two, since you both act like psychopaths. Maybe we have a seasoned psychopath and a trainee?

Avatar of Optimissed

I don't have any respect for this site any more, because they allow people like you two to infest the place.

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