Option to block countries

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lfPatriotGames
NervesofButter wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:

It's about bad experiences from certain particular locations. And the option to avoid those locations. 

Of course they are different things, but it's an example, based on the same principle. Would you prefer a different analogy?

I get what you are saying, but it still comes down to not knowing who you are playing and assuming they are form a certain country.

Yes. That is exactly right. Because the problem (no matter what it might be) is a pattern from that certain location. You are exactly right, you do not know who it is, but from the receiving end of the problem, does it matter?

Sticking with the shopping analogy. Does it matter who is vandalizing your car? I would say no, by avoiding that location the problem is solved, and your not shopping there affects nobody else that wishes to continue shopping there. 

It still comes down to assumptions, and preconceived notions.  Isnt that how racism starts?

You are getting way off track here. The OP never suggested anything of the sort. Some other people brought up race also, for no reason. Lets keep it civil. 

The issue is problems with certain locations. His suggestion was based on where the IP address is (or flag presuming it's also where the IP address is). I would recommend sticking with the original subject matter and not interject things that have no relevance of any kind. 

But you are right about one thing, assumptions. If you experience a problem, over and over, is it not fair for you to make assumptions about future interactions based on past problems?

I never said or implied that race as the OP's intent.  I am simply bring up how dangerous it can be to make assumptions with no facts. 

What facts would you like? If your experience is marred by repeated problems, is that not a fact? 

Imagine telling the car owner who has repeatedly experienced vandalism that it's dangerous to make assumptions with no facts. As if the slashed tires and broken windshield are not factual enough. 

You are right, it IS about assumptions. But as a chess player shouldn't that be exactly what we do? When I start a game of chess, I assume the opponent will make the best moves possible. And not just playing chess, all of life is absolutely loaded with assumptions. It's an important part of self preservation. 

Jenium
lfPatriotGames wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:

It's about bad experiences from certain particular locations. And the option to avoid those locations. 

Of course they are different things, but it's an example, based on the same principle. Would you prefer a different analogy?

I get what you are saying, but it still comes down to not knowing who you are playing and assuming they are form a certain country.

Yes. That is exactly right. Because the problem (no matter what it might be) is a pattern from that certain location. You are exactly right, you do not know who it is, but from the receiving end of the problem, does it matter?

Sticking with the shopping analogy. Does it matter who is vandalizing your car? I would say no, by avoiding that location the problem is solved, and your not shopping there affects nobody else that wishes to continue shopping there. 

It still comes down to assumptions, and preconceived notions.  Isnt that how racism starts?

You are getting way off track here. The OP never suggested anything of the sort. Some other people brought up race also, for no reason. Lets keep it civil. 

The issue is problems with certain locations. His suggestion was based on where the IP address is (or flag presuming it's also where the IP address is). I would recommend sticking with the original subject matter and not interject things that have no relevance of any kind. 

But you are right about one thing, assumptions. If you experience a problem, over and over, is it not fair for you to make assumptions about future interactions based on past problems?

I never said or implied that race as the OP's intent.  I am simply bring up how dangerous it can be to make assumptions with no facts. 

What facts would you like? If your experience is marred by repeated problems, is that not a fact? 

Imagine telling the car owner who has repeatedly experienced vandalism that it's dangerous to make assumptions with no facts. As if the slashed tires and broken windshield are not factual enough. 

You are right, it IS about assumptions. But as a chess player shouldn't that be exactly what we do? When I start a game of chess, I assume the opponent will make the best moves possible. And not just playing chess, all of life is absolutely loaded with assumptions. It's an important part of self preservation. 

As chess players we should first of all be able of critical thinking. The problem with inductive reasoning are not the facts, but the unreflected interpretation of the facts. Or with Bertrand Russel: “The man who has fed the chicken every day throughout its life at last wrings its neck instead, showing that more refined views as to the uniformity of nature would have been useful to the chicken.”

lfPatriotGames
NervesofButter wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
NervesofButter wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:

It's about bad experiences from certain particular locations. And the option to avoid those locations. 

Of course they are different things, but it's an example, based on the same principle. Would you prefer a different analogy?

I get what you are saying, but it still comes down to not knowing who you are playing and assuming they are form a certain country.

Yes. That is exactly right. Because the problem (no matter what it might be) is a pattern from that certain location. You are exactly right, you do not know who it is, but from the receiving end of the problem, does it matter?

Sticking with the shopping analogy. Does it matter who is vandalizing your car? I would say no, by avoiding that location the problem is solved, and your not shopping there affects nobody else that wishes to continue shopping there. 

It still comes down to assumptions, and preconceived notions.  Isnt that how racism starts?

You are getting way off track here. The OP never suggested anything of the sort. Some other people brought up race also, for no reason. Lets keep it civil. 

The issue is problems with certain locations. His suggestion was based on where the IP address is (or flag presuming it's also where the IP address is). I would recommend sticking with the original subject matter and not interject things that have no relevance of any kind. 

But you are right about one thing, assumptions. If you experience a problem, over and over, is it not fair for you to make assumptions about future interactions based on past problems?

I never said or implied that race as the OP's intent.  I am simply bring up how dangerous it can be to make assumptions with no facts. 

What facts would you like? If your experience is marred by repeated problems, is that not a fact? 

Imagine telling the car owner who has repeatedly experienced vandalism that it's dangerous to make assumptions with no facts. As if the slashed tires and broken windshield are not factual enough. 

You are right, it IS about assumptions. But as a chess player shouldn't that be exactly what we do? When I start a game of chess, I assume the opponent will make the best moves possible. And not just playing chess, all of life is absolutely loaded with assumptions. It's an important part of self preservation. 

Lets agree to disagree.

OK

jasonarthurtaylor

Melvin Garvey, the problem with your logic is that it implies we should all be playing "for the sake of chess." If this were true, why not just play a computer?  Computers can mimic almost any player, including randomness etc.  Indeed, here on this site I think there are like 40 personalities to pick from.  But, most of us play humans. Therefore, the data contradicts your assumptions;  your position is not supported by the usage patterns; you are probably wrong.

TheSwissPhoenix

racist alert?

jasonarthurtaylor
MelvinGarvey wrote:

I'll add, Nothing I said implies anyone should play for any reason at all. But who wants to play under a chess authority, if USCF, FIDE or an online Chess website, should forget about their special desires they'll better fullfill home with good friends.

You're rated over 2,000 ELO Melvin.  This site says you are better than 99.9% of people.  Assume 10% of the people you know know how to play chess.  That means, of every 10,000 people you know, only one of them can play you and it will be a good match.   Don't you see the irrationality of your last sentence given that most people don't have that many physically close friends?  And where would you happen to ever meet such great chess players if not on a site where you could restrict locations?  Local tournaments?  I suppose but please be more objective.

I didn't know the bots here aren't site-rated.  Thanks for making that point.  It's a legit counterargument. 

That said, there's no reason for this oversight.  Indeed, since bots are more predictable their site-ELO uncertainties according to Glicko 2 (the name of the algorithm this site uses to compute ELOs) should be arbitrarily small.  One thing I wonder about it if they have much AI yet.  Alphazero obviously can learn from its games but I don't think that is true for the bots.  Once one finds a winning line I wonder if you could exploit it to get an artificially high ELO (under the hypothetical assumption the bots gained a site rating).

jasonarthurtaylor

Marvin you are doing a flagrant straw man attack against me and other prior posters on this thread by equating a desire to find locals good enough to play you chess over the board when you are 99.99% better than most locals you know with a desire to play chess with a Japanese girl with pigtails under age 80.  Perhaps this site doesn't want you to bypass them, or meet anyone in real life via the site, so they may be making filtering by locality slightly broken, thanks to the likes of people like you who argue for the sake of winning instead of for the sake of truth and objectivity.

Ilampozhil25

wait i agree with @MelvinGarvey on this? a welcome surprise, and goes to show that it is ridiculous to have this

i am imagining some certain countries getting heavily blocked for non-chess reasons...

also bots are so overrated, their stability is useless

and they also vary their play

SmallerCircles
jasonarthurtaylor wrote:

Marvin you are doing a flagrant straw man attack against me and other prior posters on this thread by equating a desire to find locals good enough to play you chess over the board when you are 99.99% better than most locals you know with a desire to play chess with a Japanese girl with pigtails under age 80.  Perhaps this site doesn't want you to bypass them, or meet anyone in real life via the site, so they may be making filtering by locality slightly broken, thanks to the likes of people like you who argue for the sake of winning instead of for the sake of truth and objectivity.

Clubs allow you to find locals in a straightforward way.

Ramanjharaman

Too many request and try again by massages sent by this app why I don't understand. I am playing always fairly. My lovable app chess. Com. My world is chess.com app.

jasonarthurtaylor

MelvinGarvey: "I won't bother reply again."

Replies anyway on the basis that he's rational and honest.  Enough said.

 

jasonarthurtaylor
MelvinGarvey wrote:

Talking to the audience is not replying to one specific individual. If you feel targeted by my post, that's your problem.

Melvin your use of the word you here eliminates the chances that your argument is correct.  I mean you even quoted me, so yes you were replying to me--the argument is doubly dishonest.  As a proven liar your team's likely purpose is to obfuscate the valid grievances in the thread.

SmallerCircles joining a chess club isn't as trivial as you make it out.  I am the organizer of a 247 member group. Last event only two people besides me showed up. I am sure bigger and better chess clubs exist, but it's not really the point anyway.  It's that if we are already playing people online, and there's effectively an infinite number of players here, so why not kill two birds with one stone by selecting people you in theory could meet in real life without a huge hassle?

lfPatriotGames
MelvinGarvey wrote:

Lol, how does someone advocating the right to block players based on their nationality dare complain about a thing such as "strawman attack"???

If one wants to block all, let's say, Nigerian players, for assuming they're ill mannered, or more often cheaters than other nationalities, that's pure unfair discrimination, especially without any data proving it. Yet, even with such data, it would still be so unfair to deprive honest Nigerian players from any opponent, based on such racist/xenophobic suspicion and generalization.

The laws of most, if not all, democratic countries, to which France and USA belong, prove me right: block by nationality is unfair to individuals. And who is willing to get the law legalize unfairness, should not complain about being treated unfairly in turn, if by "strawman attack" or else.

Yet another person who inserts race into the conversation. I'm still confused how location somehow translates into race. 

A location is a physical place where something happens. A race is a specific type of person based on genetic factors. They are not the same thing. Or even close to the same thing. 

And nobody is being deprived of anything, unless they choose to. Players in certain locations could be blocked by other players, based on bad experiences. It's no different than, say, the forums where certain players are blocked. That's doesn't prevent them from participating with everyone else who hasn't blocked them.

So it's only an issue for those concerned. Why would you care if someone else blocks someone you don't know for reasons that don't affect you?

SmallerCircles
jasonarthurtaylor wrote:

SmallerCircles joining a chess club isn't as trivial as you make it out.  I am the organizer of a 247 member group. Last event only two people besides me showed up. I am sure bigger and better chess clubs exist, but it's not really the point anyway.  It's that if we are already playing people online, and there's effectively an infinite number of players here, so why not kill two birds with one stone by selecting people you in theory could meet in real life without a huge hassle?

Fair enough, though I still think that a find-a-local-playing-partner service would be better separated from the main random game finder due to potential equity issues. Chess.com could have a local player-finder that uses your IP or a single location you provide (one more specific than the entire United States).

Ilampozhil25

location is usually related to race and in any way sorting by both is discriminatory

 

wally1746

The reason this feature does not exist is less likely the staff's specific choice to not include it, but more likely the fact that it's just such a random choice to want to have to control. The flag means nothing, there is really no valid reason to need to filter out specific countries. If they let you customize your opponents based on nationality, then they may as well allow you to customize your opponents based gender, usernames, profile pictures, political opinions, etc... If the flag wasn't there, I doubt you'd be able to tell.

Give me one real reason other than " it would be nice to have the choice " and I'll change my mind.

Jenium

At best, it is fairly naif to read "how do I block certain countries" and not to think about xenophobic reasons but about internet connections.

lfPatriotGames
Ilampozhil25 wrote:

location is usually related to race and in any way sorting by both is discriminatory

 

I have never in my life ever heard of that suggestion. "location is usually related to race"???

I'm trying to think of an instance where that is ever true. 

But yes, sorting by location is discriminatory. That's the point. Choosing (or filtering) based on location is something we all do every single day. A lot. We will choose something from one location, but intentionally block out others. That's kinda how life works. 

lfPatriotGames
NervesofButter wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:

location is usually related to race and in any way sorting by both is discriminatory

 

I have never in my life ever heard of that suggestion. "location is usually related to race"???

I'm trying to think of an instance where that is ever true. 

But yes, sorting by location is discriminatory. That's the point. Choosing (or filtering) based on location is something we all do every single day. A lot. We will choose something from one location, but intentionally block out others. That's kinda how life works. 

"Why don't you go back to Africa" comes to mind. 

I'm not from Africa. So I can't go back to someplace I've never been. One of my favorite golfers though is Ernie Els. He is African. 

But I feel like we are getting way off track, again. Chess.com does not and cannot sort (or filter) people and opponents by things like race, gender, hair style, height, weight, etc. Those are things that are impossible to verify, and also have no bearing on the chess playing experience here.

But location IS something they can verify (or at least to the extent the user wants it verified). And that can have a bearing on the experience, as people here have noticed unpleasant patterns that arise. If chess.com cannot address those problems, it seems reasonable that the player is allowed to address it themselves. If for no other reason, it leaves the problem solving up to the player and chess.com doesn't have to be involved. 

ericthatwho

The original poster is from a country that has two big religions (and one small one) number wise.

he/she stated first that a method should be in place to block players from countries he/she thought (timed out, cheated. or maybe were not the religion of course or sex or color etc.) You notice somebody else had to do something to take blame.

But he/she is gone now probably for good so be nice leave it alone

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