A Bust to the Sicilian Defense

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kindaspongey
dawson_632 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
dawson_632 wrote: ...
kindaspongey wrote: ...
dawson_632 wrote:

… 1.e4 c5 2.c3 e6 3.d4 d5 4.exd5 exd5 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.Bb5 a6 ...

outplayed from the start till the end, another sicilian player bites the dust

... you can consider the 1 e4 c5 2 c3 e6 3 d4 d5 4 exd5 exd5 5 Nf3 Nc6 6 Bb5 Bd6 etc. line that the Small ECO provided ... I suppose another possibility is silence.

… i didnt have another game with this line though, so i see no need to answer this

e4 c5 c3 e6 d4 d5 exd5 exd5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5 a6 "outplayed from the start"

e4 c5 c3 e6 d4 d5 exd5 exd5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5 Bd6 "[No comment.]" ...

... you can mention the ...Bd6 line as much as you like, the moves in the game or its result isn't going to change

It's just the "outplayed from the start" belief that seems to disappear from one 1 e4 c5 2 c3 e6 3 d4 d5 4 exd5 exd5 5 Nf3 Nc6 6 Bb5 game to the other.

kindaspongey
HolographWars wrote:

I think move 6 is a good enough to say “outplayed from the start”.

If "outplayed from move 6 on" is the intended meaning of "outplayed from the start", then the intended meaning indicates nothing about the quality of Black's first five moves. It seems to me that that is a clarification worth making.

dawson_632
kindaspongey wrote:
dawson_632 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
dawson_632 wrote: ...
kindaspongey wrote: ...
dawson_632 wrote:

… 1.e4 c5 2.c3 e6 3.d4 d5 4.exd5 exd5 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.Bb5 a6 ...

outplayed from the start till the end, another sicilian player bites the dust

... you can consider the 1 e4 c5 2 c3 e6 3 d4 d5 4 exd5 exd5 5 Nf3 Nc6 6 Bb5 Bd6 etc. line that the Small ECO provided ... I suppose another possibility is silence.

… i didnt have another game with this line though, so i see no need to answer this

e4 c5 c3 e6 d4 d5 exd5 exd5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5 a6 "outplayed from the start"

e4 c5 c3 e6 d4 d5 exd5 exd5 Nf3 Nc6 Bb5 Bd6 "[No comment.]" ...

... you can mention the ...Bd6 line as much as you like, the moves in the game or its result isn't going to change

It's just the "outplayed from the start" belief that seems to disappear from one 1 e4 c5 2 c3 e6 3 d4 d5 4 exd5 exd5 5 Nf3 Nc6 6 Bb5 game to the other.

 

maybe if you recycle your comments enough, the result of the match is going to be changed. hang in there

kindaspongey
dawson_632  wrote:

… maybe if you repeat your comments enough, the result of the match is going to be changed. hang in there

Have any hesitation about repeatedly referring to the game while ignoring the "outplayed from the start" issue?

ChessBoy513

FOR THE LAST TIME, I'M SAYING SICILIAN IS NOT BUSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wingfooted

If the Alapin is a "bust" to the Sicilian, why don't pro players always go for it?

ChessBoy513

Sicilian Defence, Sicily Counterattack, Poisoned Pawn Trap

 

dawson_632
divinity_of_Joan wrote:
 

 

 

nice game

kindaspongey

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1582858

HolographWars

Black was a stronger player here, given that he was the wc challenger.

dawson_632
cat_of_7x wrote:

Wjat to play after d6?

 

 

 

d4

 

 

cat_of_7x
dawson_632 wrote:
cat_of_7x wrote:

Wjat to play after d6?

 

 

 

d4

 

 

 

Thank you, my 

kindaspongey
HolographWars wrote:

Black was a stronger player here, given that he was the wc challenger.

And, of course, 11...d5 was chosen.

HolographWars
kindaspongey wrote:
HolographWars wrote:

Black was a stronger player here, given that he was the wc challenger.

And, of course, 11...d5 was chosen.

...

because this guy is a WC challenger, and I am certainly no match for him. 

Batman88888
staples13 wrote:

In my opinion the Sicilian Defense is busted. It loses by force.

The opening move of the Sicilian Defense violates just about every opening principle. It fails to develop a piece, fails to put a pawn in the center, and fails to open up a bishop for development. It allows white to immediately open up the center and to do so with greater development. The Sicilian Defense has nevertheless remained popular despite all of this for one reason and one reason only; in order for white to open up the center it comes at the cost of having to trade its D pawn for black's C pawn. This is why the ideal response to the Sicilian is the Alapin Variation 2. C3! It says to black no you can't have my center pawn. Now white is ahead in both development and control of the center , and black has absolutely no compensation.

You don't believe me? Look at the game explorer then. I have played 581  games here on chess.com using the Alapin. I have won 68% lost 26% and drawn the other 6%. That is a score of 71%. No other opening is capable of scoring 71%. But to prove all this let's look at some games. First, we have a 3 minute no increment blitz game I played. Look at the massive advantage white immediately gets both in piece development and in center control. Both are problems which stem from black's first move.

 

 

Here's another 3 minute no increment blitz game I played. Notice how easy white's development is and how black's position is already completely unplayable by move 10.

 

Finally, I'm sure you want to see a master level game so here we have Deep Blue vs. Kasparov (1996). For a little historical context this was the first match between them and Kasparov annihilated Deep Blue +3 -1=2. Deep Blue's lone victory came as you might guess playing the Alapin Variation. Kasparov faced a horrible position straight out of the opening and Deep Blue wasted no time converting it. Notice that the most powerful chess player of all time got destroyed playing against a computer much weaker than him.

 

 

After 2. C3 black is in my opinion lost. White refuses to allow black to exchange its c pawn for white's d pawn giving black no compensation for white's lead in development and center control, which ultimately always proves decisive in the end. 

I'd like to close by saying that of course black can always play differently than in the games shown, in which case he merely loses differently.

You know you are insulting players like Fischer, or should I say masters. If you worry so much on theory, tell that to a computer. You fail to see the art in the Sicilian.

ChessBoy513

An equalization for the Alapin:

 

ChessBoy513

An equalization for the Delayed Alapin:

 

HolographWars
ChessBoy513 wrote:

An equalization for the Alapin:

 

In your sideline, play Bxd4 instead of Cxd4, giving White play against the IQP.

kindaspongey
HolographWars wrote:
ChessBoy513 wrote:

An equalization for the Alapin: ...

In your sideline, play Bxd4 instead of Cxd4, giving White play against the IQP.



HolographWars
kindaspongey wrote:
HolographWars wrote:
ChessBoy513 wrote:

An equalization for the Alapin: ...

In your sideline, play Bxd4 instead of Cxd4, giving White play against the IQP.



Terrible White play!