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Refuting the Dragon

  • #101

    Gunvald123 @

    Lol...you know, we are not all people born with the same talent to do thinks. I can practice chess 12 hours a day with the same methodology Baduur Jobava did but I will never reach the half of his performance in chess. I mentioned Jobava because his chess has been characterized ineffective as you said about Wing Chun but what exactly means ineffective and under which sircumnstances.

    The lack of blocks from strikes : The philosophy of Wing Chun is to defend with a faster attack, it not based on how good is your positioning and technique to block the strike but how fast can you anticipate the intention and strike first. The best defense is to attack first. The initiative in chess depends on timing. If you master the Wing Chun , you don't need to block strikes.

    The lack of ground game : Ofcourse Wing Chun it's not designed to last so long until you and your partner still fighting on the ground. If you fall down from a combination of a Wing Chun attack , you usually stand up quick on your feat but your problem is more in your consciousness that you can't explain how quick it was that! Dam! After the second knock down your mentality point it's a disaster, it's a fight that realize, you can't win. A good player in chess knows when to resign.

    The general positioning of the arms : As I said , the main battle of Wing Chun is in your mind not how your body stands before the fight begins. Don't think how you will defend the strike, think what is the weakness to attack. Wing Chun based on Speedness, quirkiness and I don't mean the speed of the execution only. There are many kinds of speed.

    As in Marcial Arts , so in chess there are techniques and positions that favor different people for stylish various reasons. The Sicilian Dragon it's affective for the chess players that anticipate first the attacking opportunities in this weird " positioning of the arms ".

  • #102

    Yes I agree, we should return on topic, just to remind you that I didn't put any system above the others. You characterize it as ineffective and I said it's the definition of being affective. That not make it better from anything else.

    The Chinese 10...Rb8 is a similar case but as Kasparov said when you play black, you need a opening system-variation or line that besides screaming to kicking also. This line against the Yugoslav attack has prove that knows the art of kicking even when it loses.

    If black goes against 12.Kb1 he's kicks are in limited edition...and what if black play differently? Well, he loses differently.

  • #103
    Gunvald123 wrote:

    dude, don't try to explain Wing Chun to somebody who has practiced it for over 5 years with a good Sifu.

    As I said, if you truly believe in Wing Chun being a complete and effective system, just meet some practioners of other martial arts and do some sparring. it will help you better than trying to convince people that your system is the only superior system (that's what all martial arts tend to become: an advertising business).it's the only way for you to find out what's working for you. I for myself found that without any additional techniques / modifications, I'll face problems fighting against BJJ, Muay Thai, and even Boxing. Your paragraph regarding ground game for example is a bit naive: why do you think skinny royce gracie dominated early UFC? it's because he knew his ground game and his opponents knew shit.

    just practice, learn, expand. and always face any martial art with respect, and don't put your own system above the others. it's the fighter who can make a system work, not the other way round.

    edit: let's get back on track. one silly joke by me and the whole thread got trainwrecke. i'm sorry for that.

    HA HA @ you thinking Bruce Lee who used Wing Chun to crush people would lose in a ground fight!

    The only person on the ground in that ground fight would be Bruce Lee opponent after he knocked them out.

    Even your train wreck was a terrible joke!

    If you are going to derail a thread at least have the courtesy to derail it with something entertaining and truthful!

  • #104

    The only relevant things in this thread so far have been said by pfren and FirebrandX.

    Here is another critical line.


    Also, dont forget the lines where white plays 9.0-0-0 instead of 9.Bc4. If white does not accept the pawn sacrifice black has to carefully defend a slightly worse endgame for a while.

    Further, if you want to refute the dragon in OTB chess, a good idea is to prepare sidelines.

    Regards, a long time Dragon player who recently switched to French Rubinstein. (and from KI to Nimzo). I still play those openings against weaker players. They are risky but score extremely well against weaker players.

  • #105

    The 12...Re8 it's not critical anymore, black is busted!

  • #106
    Bishop_g5 hat geschrieben:

    The 12...Re8 it's not critical anymore, black is busted!

    Shut up or give variations Tongue Out

  • #107
    Mattsetzungsabsicht wrote:
    Bishop_g5 hat geschrieben:

    The 12...Re8 it's not critical anymore, black is busted!

    Shut up or give variations

     I will not shut up and i 'll give you nothing. I am just informing you, that you live in the dark. Cool Go and pay some money to learn how and why.

  • #108
    Bishop_g5 hat geschrieben:

    I will not shut up and i 'll give you nothing. I am just informing you, that you live in the dark.  Go and pay some money to learn how and why.

    Ahahahaha. Thanks for informing everyone that you are a loudmouth who wont prove his claims.

  • #109

    GO CARO-KANN!!!

  • #110
    Mattsetzungsabsicht wrote:

    Shut up or give variations

  • #111

    Money talks!

  • #112

    So whats the price?

  • #113

    I don't sell anything but there are plenty here who does. You just need to find the right one! Good luck.

    This thread is being followed from many members that knows what am I talking about your 12...Re8. Don't you feel weird from their silent?!

    Anyway I don't want to prove anything here. The opening theory on the Dragon Sicilian changes with fast pace. A line today considered a difficult nut to cruck tomorrow is easy playable.

    The fact remains that today 12.Kb1 it's the most challenging for the 10...Rc8 players and Chinese lovers.

    If the OP is still looking how to create troubles on the Dragon this is something that worth to spent time studying.

  • #114
    Bishop_g5 wrote:

    If the OP is still looking how to create troubles on the Dragon this is something that worth to spent time studying.

    Your comments, evidently, are not.

  • #115

    I agree!

  • #116

    Forgiven.

  • #117
    Gunvald123 wrote:

    Bruce was a movie star. Even he himself admitted that in the world of martial arts, he is a child. Pls just stop posting nonsense about things you clearly have no idea about.

    also, in case you missed it: i never ever mentioned Bruce in my post to begin with. Maybe some reading comprehension would help.

    LOL @ you telling me to stop posting nonsense after you said Bruce Lee was only a movie star! LOL

    How am I suppose to take you serious after such a stupid statement.

    As for Bruce Lee saying he was a mere child in the world of martial arts. I find it funny. Do you think he should of said he was [email protected]?

    Obviously you don't know what humble means. An you say you have been in martial arts for over 15 years HA HA. What a good joke!

    Do you go around calling yourself a [email protected] martial artist? Saying you are tough as nails?

    Or when people ask you do you respond with you are a mere child in the world of martial arts just like bruce lee did. Which is what all great Martial artist do because they are very humble and have humility.

    As for your last statement. My reading comprehension is find but apparently yours is not!

    Read your quote from post #115

    "Don't want to get into detail too much here, but the lack of blocks from strikes, the lack of ground game and the general positioning of the arms makes Wing Chun ineffective."

    What you said is "Wing Chun" lacks ground game.

    Which I responded to your stupid statement with Bruce Lee never had a problem with his ground game and he used "Wing Chun".

    Yip man or IP man used "Wing Chun" as well and his ground game was not lacking either.

    If you do not see how me tieing in Bruce Lee or Ip man into the discussion when they used Wing Chun than you are a moron.

    Furthermore, If you even had a clue about Bruce Lee you would understand that he himself was very flexible in his martial arts and tryed adopting new unqiues. Simply because he believed traditional styles of fighting were not always practical in choatic street fights.

    Which you would know if you knew anything about Bruce Lee. However, according to you he is a movie star!

    An unlike you I can make my response relate to the thread very well.

    "Bruce Lee a movie star" according to Gunvald123 played in a movie which was called Enter the dragon.

    The way to enter the dragon in chess is with the following set of moves.

    Which if you was going to try and refute the Dragon one of the most critical continuation's comes after 12.Kb1




  • #118

    This thread is now declared dead. Leave.

  • #119

    Ok thanks for informing us. I wish you all the best of luck in life.

  • #120

    You misunderstand, Gila. Jay has entered the thread.

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