My Weapon of Choice: The Ruy Lopez (Pt. 6)

As I am nearing the USCF Expert threshold, I've spent the past week working through IM Silman's "Silman's Complete Endgame Course". Unfortunately, I haven't had that much time to do my usual training exercises. But anyway, I've been helping my friend prepare for State Champs, and I'm always up for a good Ruy. I can't believe 4. Nc3 is still book! (D)

Do you have a real USCF rating?

Or are you going by what your CC rating is? I don't think you are anywhere near expert level.

 http://main.uschess.org/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,181/

His rating is there and is under 1600 so he is not anywhere near uscf expert level. There are players on chess com rated over 2700 and 2800 that are under 2000 and even under 1800 in otb chess . I think everyone knows how this is possible ? 

Anyone can look up your name on uschess.org and see the truth, dude. C class ( thats where your rating puts you otb ) is nowhere near "uscf expert level" which is 2000-2199 otb. Online ratings mean NOTHING. When and where have you played any titled players ? I only see one tournament you even played and that was in 2008. Titled players are NOT likely to play otb with some C class player unless forced to in a tournament. The only tourney you played certainly didnt have any titled players playing. You are wrong to claim you are near uscf expert ( 2000-2199 otb rating ) until you are at least an A class player otb. You are obviously going by your online rating, which is meaningless as I said when it comes to otb strength/rating.

Oh, and for the record I have never claimed to be a "life master" so I dont know where that came from ?

Class A is a mountain I have long-since climbed. Yes, the rating is not official because of the many aforementioned reasons. You speak of titled players as if they are rare, mythical creatures. But the ones I know are all quite personable, and some of them, you know, actually go to grassroots events like local chess clubs and play for pride, fun, and to help out aspiring chess players, as the game will die without new blood.

Of course online ratings mean nothing. But I use it, among other things, as an indicator of my play-strength. When I play Online Chess, I play straight up: no analysis board, no books, no database, no "submit move" (I actually do play touch-move and have lost a few games due to mouse slips), and no deep thinks (I make 90% of my moves in 1-2 minutes and rarely spend 4-5 minutes on a single move). I know my opponents may use some or all of these aforementioned tools, but I don't to try and test my skills.

I've played through a bunch of John Nunn's tactical exams, which approximate FIDE rating. And I've gone through about 7 Pandolfini "Solitaire Chess" scoring as high as 2050 USCF approximate rating. Of course, these various tests only approximate your rating, so I figure even if I subtract 100 points or so, I'm still close to my current target goal.

And not all of us grow up in New York or live in Europe where you can get tournaments every week of any variety that you like. Due to logistical reasons, i.e. you can't have a TD or computer program judge the game and enforce the rules, and the integrity of the rating system, only a small minority of games can be rated, which is a real shame.

And seriously, did you even look at the game? That was kind of the whole point of this thread. I was trying to help my friend prepare for a coming State Championship tournament, not trying to post my best game and look good. 

The facts are that you are 1557 uscf rating based on 5 games from a tournament you played in 2008. The highest rated player in this event was under 1700, you lost to him. You are helping your friend prepare for the Hawaii state championship ( a friend that is about 1300 uscf) but why arent you preparing yourself to play in the state championship ? As for these titled players you have played otb, I assume they have names ? What are their names ? Oh, I also didnt grow up in a great place for chess, I grew up in small towns of rural Georgia and played uscf rated chess in the US Southeast ( no hotbed for chess) from 1973-1997. With a rating of 1557 ( which is also only provisional btw) you could truthfully claim to be "approaching uscf B class level " but NOT uscf expert level. I am curious why you arent planning to play in your state championship and yet your friend is ?

NM Reb

Hi. First off, let me please apologize so we can end this feud. I didn't mean to attack or offend you in the public forums. I'm sorry.

My chess career in a nutshell is that I joined my high school chess club for half a semester and played in a scholastic championship event, finishing 3.5/6 and with a performance rating of about 1400. After that I walked away from the game cold-turkey for several years. I recently picked up the game again fresh last summer when my girlfriend and I wandered past my now local chess club by chance in the mall. After playing there for about 6 weeks, I entered a G/45 tournament because my coach wanted me to play with him. Again, not the best time control, nor the most exciting venue, but as you have grown up in a small town, I'm sure you must know the feeling. Yes, I finished with a score of 3.5/5 losing to a "1700". But again, please know that the ratings at that tournament were seriously deflated. My second round opponent beat a 1600, but his own rating was like 1190 or something like that: impossible (if not for ratings deflations)!

The reason why I don't play in at States is because I return to graduate school in about 10 days, so I'll be in California when the tournament rolls around on Labor Day. Last year, I didn't have a car in California, so I wasn't able to play in any tournaments there either.

I know I've worked hard, putting in countless hours playing and studying on my own in the past year, as a player to play a strong game and give back to my community. But I know I wouldn't be the player I am today if it weren't for my coach and my girlfriend, and now my club members, who support me. So I try to give back with my time by playing strong games with the tournament players at the club and coaching the younger players.

I'm not just talking when I say I know that my play strength easily surpasses 1800 USCF. 

The titled players I know prefer to remain anonymous here on Chess.com, so I'm not sure if they would want me to name names here. I'm sorry if we got off on the wrong foot. You have to watch out for that Kupov! But I assure you, I play my CC differently than most, I play lots of strong skittles games, study a lot, and would play in more events if there were proper venues available. 

 When I was getting Chess Life I also did Pandolfini's quiz regularly and rigorously (with a clock). His ratings-results were 300-400 points inflated--always. This was years of doing his quiz.

There's no substitute for the crucible of long TC otb. Skittles and online play are a different animal.

Not trying to pigpile on ya chum but I think my points are relevant and valid.

You can tell me the names of titled players you have played face to face. How is that messing with anyone's anonymity here on chess.com ? How many titled players are there in Hawaii anyway ? I doubt there are very many. Do you know the current strongest players in Hawaii ? I have a problem with you claiming to be "approaching expert level" when, in fact you are not. You claim you believe you are A class strength but your 1557 rating is more than a whole class away from A class level. As for your play here, you have a losing record and have lost 5 of your last six games with the longest loss being in only 20 moves. This does NOT indicate that you play even at the A class level. California has lots of chess activity and serious chess players find ways to get to chess tournaments under much more difficult situations than simply not having a car. Many chess players car pool so catching a ride is often just a matter of letting other chess players know you need a ride. I have taken a bus to more than one chess tournament in my past when I didnt have a reliable car and couldnt get a ride because there were no other chess players near me.  

 Please clarify this statement for me ? Are you saying you have played otb games with players who had otb rating of over 2400 ?  Or, are you claiming to have played them online ? And , if you played them online, are you saying their otb ratings were 2400 or their online ratings ? If you actually played them otb was this in Hawaii or California ? What were the circumstances? Who are they ? Why would a 2400 sit and play with you when I have often had such players even refuse to sit and play with me ? This smells very fishy to me..... sorry, but it does.

NM Reb

Well, I'm sorry that I've tried being civil and amicable. I would have hoped we could have gotten past our rough start, shaken hands, and approached this discussion with a much needed sense of mutual respect.

First of all, yes, I do know the strongest players in Hawaii. The strongest active players in Hawaii are two USCF Masters, with one of them being a FIDE Candidate Master I believe. Some of our stronger players have retired. But yes, Hawaii chess is not like other states, with grandmasters and IMs.

Second, the strong players I have played at clubs also have accounts on chess sites like this, and they have chosen not to be represented here as titled players. But yes, I have played multiple games against a USCF Senior Master. That is no lie.

Perhaps they are willing to play me because I am a passionate student of the game. I strive to play my best game, win, lose or draw. To be blunt, perhaps they don't play you because of your attitude about chess. It's unnerving that a Master has nothing better to do with his time than disparage a random player in a public forum.

Third, and least important, my recent games were all unrated, and I was challenging players who play >1 hour/move to see if I could finish some CC games in a hour or two. I conceded if the player stopped making moves and logged off, as I had no interest in continuing the game.

In conclusion, I have offered you my sincere apology, divulged a good bit of my personal history as a chess player, and have provided you with a long list of facts that I believe support my claims in this thread. I'm sorry if you simply have trouble "taking me seriously" and feel as if you have to act superior to me in someway. It's unfortunate, but I hold no grudge. Maybe sometime we can shake hands and be over all of this.

But I believe in myself. And I know my game. I stand by the assertions I have made in this thread, and I have provided some solid facts and hypotheses to explain my point-of-view.

goldendog

You know I agree with you. There is no substitute for tournament play. I base very little of my claims on my online play. And as for Pandolfini, his test is sponsored by the USCF, so I approach it with a serious mindset. And yes, I had a feeling it is a little "inflated". But what isn't these days with chess?

Take USCF ratings for example. I believe the rating model itself is a little outdated and needs to be updated. However, I see that it can't for practical reasons like logistics and integrity. I play lots of serious games every week, with tournament time controls, tournament rules, trying to simulate a tournament environment with the strongest players available to me. With the advent of engines, and other venues like clubs and the internet, your average tournament player probably plays dozens and dozens and hundreds of serious games every year, but probably only attends a few tournaments. Of the hundreds of games he or she has played, only about 1% are rated. How is this, in any sense of the word, an "accurate" measure of a player's strength? This of course, is life: you have to have a TD to both enforce the rules (logistics) and maintain the integrity of the rating system (no cheating/fixing results), so only a minute subset of all games played can be officially rated.

Chess and the player has got to be worth more than a number.

As regards to your original game, 4.Nc3 is book of course because it's simply the 4 knights. 5.Bxc6 is the unusual move.

You have not named the titled players that you have played otb chess with, in particular the senior master you have played otb with ? Perhaps I am misunderstanding your claim ? Did you play a senior master on chess.com or otb ? I am not asking for his name on chess.com. , if he plays here. If you played a SM otb I am asking where did you play him and what were the circumstances ? Did you play him in Hawaii or Ca ? Or, did you only play the SM on chess.com ? I dont usually disparage anyone who is just a chess player making posts in forums. You caught my attention by having so many forums and by making the claim, several times, of being near "uscf expert level" which is clearly untrue and easy to factually prove. I dont like players who make bogus claims...... perhaps you also noticed I have attacked ouachita for the same thing: bogus claims of a 2500 fide otb rating which he could easily prove, if true, but he chooses not to...... when a player with a 1557 rating (fact) claims to be near "uscf expert level" and does so often I will call em on it. Just stop making bogus claims and you won't have any problem with me.

marvellosity

Yeah, I had a little laugh with my opponent that the Spanish Game went into a Berlin, then a Four Knights, and then an Exchange Variation.

I surprised myself a little bit by playing 4. Bb4! I'm kind of proud to say I played the #1 move in the database here, even if it does look a little silly: White copies Black and achieves symmetry developing both Knights, and Black "copies" White by throwing out the "Ruy-like Bishop" on b4.

I know the Master would play 5. ... dxc6 but I had some bad experience with it the last time I played the Berlin, so with this strange book position, I thought it might be better to play 5. ... bxc6, but I guess it's just a slight, slight inaccuracy.

Brandon, you are a bore.  You dodge Reb's questions, then insult him, then claim you've answered his questions.

NM Reb

Okay, fair enough. From now on, I will just let my game speak for itself. But indulge me with a little more grace than the person you previously mentioned: claiming to be 2500 FIDE is not at all the same as saying one is a 2000 USCF Expert! I mean I'm not claiming to be a possible GM, give or take a few norms!! :p

To clarify some facts, I have played Masters both at this site and OTB in Hawaii, in club environments, but with tournament rules and time controls enforced. And yes, I got crushed. But I made it to a King-and-pawn endgame! Taking a Master to an endgame has got to be worth something right? More than just a "mere Class C" player right? And yes, I got smoked in finish.

The 1600 player that I drew at the tournament, I have also beaten on many occasions OTB with tournament controls (though unrated games). Does drawing a Class B at a tournament and beating him unrated OTB multiple times say anything about my performance rating?

Also, I played a side game against a then Class A now 2045 USCF Expert at the tournament. I got crushed. But I know that if I played that player who I played last year, I could win. I wish I could play him now with his Expert rating, but I won't be able to make States. Does that say anything about my performance rating?