super beginner question- why does analysis say that this queen is "trapped"

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Avatar of AIDavid2002

on move 4 Nf4 is seen as a "blunder" by the computer analysis because it allows white to "attack the trapped queen". and analysis says the best move is to give up the queen as black after bishop g5 and just castle, but I think that there is 5.Bg5 f6 6.exf6 gxf6 7.Bxh6 . the queen survives, though the black has a lower advantage, probably because the king cannot castle and the files are open. 

the 500elo game is stupid so please don't cringe so much at it 

is it just a matter of intuition vs pure calculation or would actual players sacrifice the queen for a better position like in this situation? ( or have I miscalculated moves lol )

Avatar of Martin_Stahl
AIDavid2002 wrote:
 
 

on move 4 Nf4 is seen as a "blunder" by the computer analysis because it allows white to "attack the trapped queen". and analysis says the best move is to give up the queen as black after bishop g5 and just castle, but I think that there is 5.Bg5 f6 6.exf6 gxf6 7.Bxh6 . the queen survives, though the black has a lower advantage, probably because the king cannot castle and the files are open.

the 500elo game is stupid so please don't cringe so much at it

is it just a matter of intuition vs pure calculation or would actual players sacrifice the queen for a better position like in this situation? ( or have I miscalculated moves lol )

You mean after 4. ...Nh6? Here's what I show and it's because you'll lose the knight after 5. Bg5. Not sure why show lines gives up the queen 🤔

Avatar of justbefair
AIDavid2002 wrote:
 
 

on move 4 Nf4 is seen as a "blunder" by the computer analysis because it allows white to "attack the trapped queen". and analysis says the best move is to give up the queen as black after bishop g5 and just castle, but I think that there is 5.Bg5 f6 6.exf6 gxf6 7.Bxh6 . the queen survives, though the black has a lower advantage, probably because the king cannot castle and the files are open.

the 500elo game is stupid so please don't cringe so much at it

is it just a matter of intuition vs pure calculation or would actual players sacrifice the queen for a better position like in this situation? ( or have I miscalculated moves lol )

Hmm. I don't see 4 Nf4 . Do you mean after 5..Ng4 by black? Then you could play 6 Bg5.

And then after 6..f6 7 exf6 g*f6 8 B*h6, you would be up by a knight.

Avatar of AIDavid2002

excuse me! not Nf4 but 4. Nh6. stockfish 14 says 5.Bg 5 O-O 6.Bxd8 after 4. Nh6 is the best move

Avatar of justbefair

Actual players cannot calculate like computers.

I would probably just take the knight on h6 because it messes up black's kingside.

A few would see 5 Bg5. Some would see through 5.. f6 6 e*f6 g*f6 7 B*h6 and be happy about winning a knight.

Some would see that black has Bxf2+ and Ng4+ after Kxf2 and try to figure it out.

Almost no one would see their way through all the calculations in a 10 minute game. I get different results when I run the position after 5 Bg5 through the Stockfish 16 analysis here.

Castling for black is not the first, second or third choice.

As a 500 rated player, you cannot be expected to figure any of this out over the board. If you can recognize an opportunity to mess up your opponent's kingside, you would be doing well.

Avatar of AIDavid2002

thanks!

Avatar of pepe

> is seen as a "blunder" by the computer analysis because it allows white to "attack the trapped queen"

Game review says:

> This permits the opponent to win material by trapping a piece.

Which is correct, because in order to save the trapped queen Black would need to give up a lot of material (at least a piece).

> would actual players sacrifice the queen for a better position like in this situation?

I would resign really. But sure, if I want to keep playing I'd probably go 0-0 or Ng4.

Avatar of Reprka
AIDavid2002 wrote:
 
 

on move 4 Nf4 is seen as a "blunder" by the computer analysis because it allows white to "attack the trapped queen". and analysis says the best move is to give up the queen as black after bishop g5 and just castle, but I think that there is 5.Bg5 f6 6.exf6 gxf6 7.Bxh6 . the queen survives, though the black has a lower advantage, probably because the king cannot castle and the files are open.

the 500elo game is stupid so please don't cringe so much at it

is it just a matter of intuition vs pure calculation or would actual players sacrifice the queen for a better position like in this situation? ( or have I miscalculated moves lol )

You are still learning my bro, nobody ain't gonna judge you here. Trust me, when I started learning chess, I was destroyed by my father a lot and he used to taunt me for making mistakes. It takes time to get over them.

Avatar of Reprka

The gameplay was still better than most 500 elo players. Keep up the good work.

Avatar of Guest6239690354
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