Bishops are not better than Knights

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Eatityounastyasshack

Good luck creating a pin with a knight. 

justcheckin99
Archer001 wrote:


So in this I would have played  Rh5+ , Kc4, Rxf5 and white resign. This is because the knight can't even reach the pass pawn, and without the bishop the game is lost. In this situation, the bishop is very very important. Knight, was useless.This was with my friend holding a grudge against me after me winning two matches in a row, he messed up here. I was playing white, and this was the end-game. If he had done what I did here, I would have no doubt lost. But he was too afraid to take the bishop because he treasured the rook. And the game ended up as a tie by me being 1 up by a knight because I forked his rook by him again messing up accidentally. 

think you may have overlooked that after r-a5ch white can play kn-b5 thus blocking the check so knight isnt so useless after all

bishop can perpetually threaten b1 so the pawn simply cant queen. one slip by black and the rook gets forked by the knight so the game is obviously a very careful draw imho. (unless there is something i have overlooked?) whites safest plan is probably to put bish on b1 and move to a carefully thought out safe square if threatened by the rook. meantime knight or king can move against the pawn and eventually kill it.

 

as for the original thing about kn v bish, i prefer a knight in the end game because it can cover every square on the board whereas a bish can only cover half the squares, despite the fact that its maximum number of squares it can attack simultaneously are higher, the knight has advantages to offset that. if the opposition's pawns are on a different color square to the bishop then the bishop is often useless.

however one advantage with a bish is that a pawn and a bish can protect each other which cant be done with a knight

 

i lean slightly towards knights in the end game but you need to go with whatever floats your boat .......

justcheckin99
justcheckin99 wrote:
Archer001 wrote:


So in this I would have played  Rh5+ , Kc4, Rxf5 and white resign. This is because the knight can't even reach the pass pawn, and without the bishop the game is lost. In this situation, the bishop is very very important. Knight, was useless.This was with my friend holding a grudge against me after me winning two matches in a row, he messed up here. I was playing white, and this was the end-game. If he had done what I did here, I would have no doubt lost. But he was too afraid to take the bishop because he treasured the rook. And the game ended up as a tie by me being 1 up by a knight because I forked his rook by him again messing up accidentally. 

also - if you had captured the rook with a fork, and done what i suggested about the bish guarding the queening square, assuming you didnt lose the knight in the rook capture fork, you could have captured the pawn then gotten a checkmate with the kn and bish. a small percentage of chess players know how to mate with a kn and bish v a lone king (i happen to be one of them), but most players wouldnt know how to do it because it takes a bit of effort and practice to do it, and being such a rare occurance, very few players bother to learn it.

mdinnerspace

Knights are heavy baggage. Ever seen a Knight capture the King? Of course not. Get on with moving to the other side of the board where the action is. Knights are good for going in circles, looks handsome but quite silly stuff.

justcheckin99

knights occasionally have the disadvantage of not being able to lose the tempo. for example if its k and kn and p on h file v lone king and lone king is on the queening square and is in check, with best defence, the knight cannot lose tempo and put the lone king in zugzwang. however if the bish controls the queening square then it CAN lose tempo .....

namankings

 

namankings

this game illustrates power of bishop over knight

MickinMD

There are a number of tactics and strategy books that mention a hallmark of low-rated players is being afraid to lose a Bishop for a Knight.  Of course, it depends on the position which is better or equal. In general, Larry Kaufman's famous 1990's study of 80,000,000 positions concluded the Bishop Pair is worth 0.5 Pawns more than a B + N, but in general he determined Q=9.75, R=5, B=N=3.25, P=1.

I just let a coach of the U. of Kansas Chess Team, take my B for an N. If I had made an effort to save the N, it would have put me in a weaker position.

Nordlandia

BB ~ NN+P for human perspective. 

Gleen Flear, Practical Endgame Play - Beyond the Basics - 2007.

AlCzervik
namankings wrote:

this single game illustrates some power bishop may have over knight 

fixed.

Dranacyuek

Focus of the game should be on extending the amount of time your king has, and lowering the amount of time your opponent's king has.

"Range Value" and "Attack Value" is the average amount of squares the pieces can move to or attack from all squares.

"Potential Value" is the absolute maximum strength of a piece, under the best condition.

 

King Range Value= 6.5625
King Range Potential= 8
King Attack Value= 6.5625
King Attack Potential= 8

Queen Range Value= 22.75
Queen Range Potential= 27
Queen Attack Value= 6.5625
Queen Attack Potential= 8

Rook Range Value= 14
Rook Range Potential= 14
Rook Attack Value= 3.5
Rook Attack Potential= 4

Bishop Range Value= 8.75
Bishop Range Potential= 13
Bishop Attack Value = 3.0625
Bishop Attack Potential=4

Knight Range Value= 5.25
Knight Range Potential= 8
Knight Attack Value= 5.25
Knight Attack Potential=8

 

Knights are stronger than bishops in the attack sense, as they can attack up to 8 different pieces. However that only means they are good in the early game where there is a lot of pieces to attack. And only if they are in a centralized position. They become very weak, very quickly. If you trade an opponent's bishop for your knight, you should try to force the exchange of pieces as quickly as possible to speed up the process of weakening your opponent's knight.

Bishops are stronger than knights in the mobility sense, however since there is a lot of units on the board early game, this makes it difficult for them to move. However they quickly become stronger as more pieces are traded off the board.

In a general sense, Bishops are a tiny bit better because of how chess games generally progress. However it would definitely be situational which piece is better in what positions, because of how similar in strength the pieces are.

That's what I found personally by using some basic math.

phlips0r

Carlsen said the worst bishop is better then a knight wink.png

kindaspongey

https://web.archive.org/web/20140708111530/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/bvkt.pdf

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/endgames/which-are-better-for-the-endgame-knights-or-bishops

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/are-bishops-better-than-knights

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/knights-or-bishop-12

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/for-beginners/q-a-for-beginners?page=46

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/do-you-prefer-knight-or-bishop?

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/who-is-the-most-powerful-bishop-or-knight

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/which-is-better-knight-or-bishop

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/for-beginners/knights-vs-bishops

Chessflyfisher

I try not to be too dogmatic most of the time but the title of this thread is practically blasphemous!

tigermi7

a bishop pair would always be more helpful and attacking than a double knight pairwb.pngbb.png

Jaguar000777
jerry2468 wrote:

You people. Bishops are better than everything. Never lose them! If you have to choose between Queen and Bishop, choose Bishop! If you have to choose between King and Bishop, choose Bishop! Not even a loss is worth the shame of losing a bishop for an "inferior" piece.

I am glad there are other smart people.  I was starting to think I was the only one.

rabzjay
I feel each player uses and places a unique value on their pieces ... I have seen players consistently fall back on their bishops and others don’t. Whatever works for you I guess
AlCzervik
Jaguar000777 wrote:
jerry2468 wrote:

You people. Bishops are better than everything. Never lose them! If you have to choose between Queen and Bishop, choose Bishop! If you have to choose between King and Bishop, choose Bishop! Not even a loss is worth the shame of losing a bishop for an "inferior" piece.

I am glad there are other smart people.  I was starting to think I was the only one.

says the smart expert with a rating under 1000.

Jaguar000777
AlCzervik wrote:
Jaguar000777 wrote:
jerry2468 wrote:

You people. Bishops are better than everything. Never lose them! If you have to choose between Queen and Bishop, choose Bishop! If you have to choose between King and Bishop, choose Bishop! Not even a loss is worth the shame of losing a bishop for an "inferior" piece.

I am glad there are other smart people.  I was starting to think I was the only one.

says the smart expert with a rating under 1000.

It is incredibly obvious that Jerry2468 was being sarcastic/funny.  Which is why I posted.  But you would need a sense of humor to get either of those things.

blueemu
Jaguar000777 wrote:

But you would need a sense of humor to get either of those things.

Where can I download one?