cheating on chess.com

Yea I agree you can learn just as much from post-game analysis with a program. Instead of coaching you during each move and basically having a program do your thinking for you, you can play a game to the best of YOUR ability and then do some critical learning afterwards about where you went wrong and where you could have gone better in the game.

Think about it, most people who use programs all the time develop a huge crutch.  They suck when they don't have a program to rely on which means there chess for the most part doesn't improve - and in a lot of cases, isn't any good in the first place.  In fact most people who turn to programs to cheat have already given up on actually becoming good themselves and instead want to inflict chess destruction on their opponent's unsuspecting egos - but I guess that is another story.

Anyway, if you do decide to leave good luck to you.  This is a great site and you'll really be missing out.  I feel bad for you since you obviously use a program because you are scared of losing.  You let the small percentage of cheaters get into your head.

Really?  He has only been using programs for 2 months now, and so I don't see how what he did is such a travesty that he should be banned or leave.  Isn't the fact that he came clean and apologized for something he didn't know was wrong when he did it good enough?

You seem to think that good chess play means being able to see more moves ahead than your opponent. I respectfully disagree; indeed, being able to see many moves ahead is a very important skill to have, but also important is the ability to analyze a position, identify your and your opponent's strengths and weaknesses, and then capitalize upon them. The development of long-term plans, as well as tactical and positional play, is key in the understanding of a master chess player.

That said, I personally think that with a site as successful as this, it is impossible to believe that you will not, at some point, play a cheater. However, my view is that it's only one game. If you think they're cheating, then report them and don't play with them again. I find it ironic that the reason so many people hate cheaters is because losing games affects their rating - the very reason said cheaters cheat in the first place. If anything, you got beat by someone who played very well, so take it as a learning experience. C'est la vie.

Cheating or not cheating.....

For me and a lot of people ratings on an internet site means strictly nothing. In that state of mind, I usually try new openings since I don't really care for my ratings, but trying those things makes me learns more about chess and make me becomes a better player. Continuing in that state of mind, I also don't really care if I'm playing a computer or an other player, but since I play on an internet site, I chose to try to play against an other human because they play very differently than a computer. Unfurtunatly, they're will always be people using programs either to get better or to have the best rating possible. In the first case, you will learn as much if you check the programs after the game, maybe even more because you might find you're own mistake yourself, when you're opponent beats you. As for the second reason, well I don't see the proud you can get by having the best chess program.

Now for the case of people you already used programs on this site, well you should have read the rules, but I don't think it is necessary for you to leave this site. Now you know how people feel about using programs to find you're move, just be respectful and don't use them anymore than everyone will be happy even the ones that really care about the rating because if you are not worth your rating, it will go down very fast to stabilise.

I belive we all have lost games on the site; i've lost plenity of them, but not just because i lost a game i'll say that my oponent cheated, and truth be told i belive that most of the top rated players on the site can beat chess engines on turn based chess, like some one said before 99.9% of the people won't cheat and even if you play with some one of the 0.01% left and lose so what? its only a lost game, one more to the stack just learn the most you can of that game and improve your own play.

I'm not saying that cheating its ok nor recomended, im just saying "don't let that a bad experiense lessen your love and passion for the game" that's all, if you suspect some one for cheating report it and continue as nothing happened analyse the game you lost like any other one, learn the most you can and continue enjoying chess. Meanwhile the site managers will be dealing with that person, thats their job and belive me they do it the best they can.

P.S: just to get clear some points. and you guys can read it here if you still have doubts about it.

You may NOT get any help from any person or any chess engine throughout the course of a game, including tablebases.

You MAY use books, magazines, or other articles.

You MAY also use computer databases (including Chess.com's Game Explorer)

i.e. you can copy you game and paste it on a bord on your chessbase9 you also MAY click on the reference button to see all the games that had been played that match with your own game, also you MAY see the opening book tree if the game still on early opening stages. but you MAY NOT set on any enginee so it can suggest you moves, also you MAY NOT use endgame tablebases to see the correct order of moves of the endgame you have on your own game. but you may check it on a book (i.e. you have a bishop/knigth vs king endgame in this case you cant use the tablebases but you MAY check the how to do it on any book or even in the chessmentor ).

FYI - we don't make it publicly known, but each day we close accounts for cheating. we don't disclose exact methods, but we are getting better and better at detecting.

that said, i agree with most the posts here that less than 0.5% of people are cheating and that most people are basically good people and are here to play a good game. i have only felt like 1 person cheated while playing me and i looked into it and they had, so i closed their account. but overall, it's minimal and we do a quiet job of closing accounts of those who cheat to help keep chess.com a great place to enjoy chess.

Eric--would it be fair to say that once someone is detected as cheating that they are removed. In other words, no warnings on something like this?

lol, somebody was actually stupid enough to cheat against you erik?

i can't say our exact process - sorry :)

yes - and what is more funny is that he then went to the forums and bragged about it. total idiot.

Ok...thanks for the reply.

LoL.. I cant even imagine what Erik would be thinking then :D..

 Mandelshtam

I would like to point out that this place is not a democracy.  If Eric et. al. decide that a person will be banned for suspected engine use they can.  It is their site.  It does not have to be beyond any doubt or beyond reasonable doubt.

Eric and crew have a great place here for us to play the game that we love.  Pick someone with a similar rating to you and you should be fine.  Sure there are going to be "cheaters" but lets let the Chess.com team deal with that with minimal criticism. 

(please note that I have only read the first page of this thread)

I hope mandelshtam does not leave the site. I learned what may amount to a refutation of the Budapest Gambit from him, and I'd be interested in his further insights on other openings - such as the Albin Counter Gambit (d4 d5 c4 e5).

I would like to add that when I played two games against mandelshtam in the final round of a tournament, that he was most definitely not using a program, and was quite a strong player. The game I had as black should have been a draw, but he missed the single drawing line in a king and pawn ending.

... come to think of it, maybe that key position should be added to the Tactics Trainer ...

you probably dont get what I mean but I am NOT cheating.

What are you talking about? I cant even find a program that could make a move for me!

Anyway,

I do want that mandelshtam gets banned, or else he is already banned.

One thing: Why use computer moves? Just train on another program which DOES NOT give you moves for another game. I do that. I have got half a million(a quarter of a million) chess programs that train your chess mind.

By Kayton and I hope you agree with me!

Leave mandelshtam alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think a suspended sentence should do! :D

As an aside here (staff... a suggestion) I think that it would be wonderful to offer Rybka, Shredder, Fritz, Crafty, and all the other top-level programs available on this site, to analyze games, or to study. It was GM Shabalov who in Chess Life described the lab of a serious professional player (such as himself). It looks like this.

Have a dedicated high performance computer (no access for the kids) on which you have loaded all the top programs. When a position comes up (for example during opening preparation), have the computers play a round robin tournament overnight, and review the analysis in the morning. Over breakfast, with good black coffee, and an egg with some toast and bacon. Maybe a glass of OJ as well. If this was offered as an a la carte premium service, along with a vastly expanded opening DB, I for one would pay a subscription fee.