Chess will never be solved, here's why

Sort:
Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Sorry, he just attacks people who disagree with him. If I were unintelligent enough to share his views, me and him would be bosom buddies. Thankfully, that is not the case.

There are three possible courses of action. Reporting him for abuse doesn't work because he has a friend. Ignoring him gives him the floor, which he will try to dominate. That's how he drives people off threads. If more people would report him for abuse, that might help but the best way is to meet him head on and at least explain the situation to others. If you cannot see what's happening, then you wouldn't be seeing that which the majority see very clearly. playerafar has got it completely right ... the trolling is actually strategic, to try to drive people off the forums if he disagrees with them. He doesn't have much intellectual ability, so he can't tell that most of us know that he can't make a reasoned argument.

Complete and utter fabrication. Let's be clear here...I don't get actioned by mods because I don't break the ToS. You, on the other hand, have been muted so many times it's not even funny at this point. People should consider the source when accusations are made, and once again, with zero backup.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

Me too really. I'm not trying to drag you in.

It's a joke that a lot of people make, though, when they don't understand that there is an aggressor and a relatively normal person. If we ended up in a room I'm not sure who else would come back out. Have to be very careful though because he will interpret such innuendo as physical threat, even though we're about 4000 miles apart. The moderators are in general very good here, with a lot of common sense; but some staff are very gullible.

More fabrication, no backup. Your "he only gets the best of me all the time because he has staff secretly supporting him" has always been laughable on one side of it, pitiable on the other. The one mod that might have supported me, Batgirl, had far too much integrity to ever bend the rules to protect me (or anyone)...not that I ever would have asked.

Avatar of OctopusOnSteroids
Cythaera wrote:
I was only kidding about the room part guys ( bemused). just don't want to get dragged into it, i'm a lover not a fighter :)
@lieutenantFrank: we're getting smarter, and as someone else has pointed out, we're changing, and we'll be merging with our machines in this century. Chess will become boring. It will have to change with us.

Once we fuse with machinery it will be equipped sports/competition... just like someone wearing a bench press shirt vs raw bench. People tend to favor raw.

Avatar of Optimissed
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

Me too really. I'm not trying to drag you in.

It's a joke that a lot of people make, though, when they don't understand that there is an aggressor and a relatively normal person. If we ended up in a room I'm not sure who else would come back out. Have to be very careful though because he will interpret such innuendo as physical threat, even though we're about 4000 miles apart. The moderators are in general very good here, with a lot of common sense; but some staff are very gullible.

More fabrication, no backup. Your "he only gets the best of me all the time because he has staff secretly supporting him" has always been laughable on one side of it, pitiable on the other. The one mod that might have supported me, Batgirl, had far too much integrity to ever bend the rules to protect me (or anyone)...not that I ever would have asked.

That's an interesting deviation from the norm. Your normal tactic is to make me the aggressor and you, the poor victim.

I wonder why you're talking about a moderator who was a moderator 10 or 15 years ago saying "she might have supported" you, when I clearly stated that the problem isn't with the moderators? Also I wonder about the fact that you call any comment I make "more fabrication".

Yet you constantly and consistently tell me that I make unsupported statements. If that ISN'T your fabrication, then is there some strange neurological reversal taking place, perhaps? You genuinely think that you are me? That could explain it, whereas more reasonable explanations seem to be against the rules. So that must be it.

You aren't actioned as much as you should be by the mods because they are told you're off limits. Also, you deny ever having been muted and yet you've been muted quite a lot but, unfortunately, not as much as you should have been, regarding all the abuse you've dished out over the years to 1000s of people. And I am not joking. Nor is that a fabrication. It's the truth.

You have not hit on the real reason I was just muted for 6 months. You haven't come close and it definitely wasn't for calling you whatever, because I took care to remain perfectly polite at all times. The reason was something else entirely. It was trying to address why a certain very small number of people are allowed to dish out abuse to anyone they fancy.

Avatar of Elroch
OctopusOnSteroids wrote:
Cythaera wrote:
I was only kidding about the room part guys ( bemused). just don't want to get dragged into it, i'm a lover not a fighter :)
@lieutenantFrank: we're getting smarter, and as someone else has pointed out, we're changing, and we'll be merging with our machines in this century. Chess will become boring. It will have to change with us.

Once we fuse with machinery it will be equipped sports/competition... just like someone wearing a bench press shirt vs raw bench. People tend to favor raw.

Yes, it is a simple fact that the vests reduce the load on the lifting muscles at the bottom - there is effectively a spring due to tension in the material. It's noticeable that equipped lifters sometimes have trouble locking out because that part of the lift involves closer to the full weight.

Avatar of Optimissed

Regarding weights, I just use them to train rather than lift. But I AM 74. Multiple lifts of 70 pounds, which is what I use, keeps the muscle mass much lower while encouraging rather than hampering flexibility and while stimulating muscle efficiency. I have a machine for heavier training, which is programable. It cost me £2. I tend to use it without the batteries.

When younger and hyper fit, I used a bench at 45 degrees, against a wall, hooking my feet in at the top and doing multiple situps carrying weights at shouder level. I think that was the most effective method I ever found.

Avatar of Cythaera
By merging with machines I'm referring not so much to macroscale (bionics), but more to the augmentation of our senses, memory, and capacity for computation and pattern recognition. It has already begun, but it's crude. Advances in materials, photonics, and quantum computing will all support great leaps over what is currently possible. computational density should collapse from the present nanoscale down to the picoscale over the next three decades. (with or without a big war)
Avatar of Cythaera
to get a sense of what it would mean and why the timeline is plausible, go on Google and check out a picture of Deep Blue, the IBM big iron that trounced Kasparov in 1997 by playing at approximately 2850.

Compare against your iPhone, which can play offline (!! no cloud hosted assists) at 3200+.

In 30 years or likely much less, that power will be implanted in our heads, and we won't know where the meat stops and the machine begins.
Avatar of Optimissed
Cythaera wrote:
By merging with machines I'm referring not so much to macroscale (bionics), but more to the augmentation of our senses, memory, and capacity for computation and pattern recognition. It has already begun, but it's crude. Advances in materials, photonics, and quantum computing will all support great leaps over what is currently possible. computational density should collapse from the present nanoscale down to the picoscale over the next three decades. (with or without a big war)

I think that the neuroanalysts don't know how the brain works, so that any merging with machines can only be quite crude, like using thought impulses to control movement of prosthetic limbs. Whilst amazing in terms of what was achievable 50 years ago, the will to move a limb can be traced within the brain and nervous system. But I think that there are overlapping systems where abstract thinking's concerned.

Avatar of Optimissed
Cythaera wrote:
to get a sense of what it would mean and why the timeline is plausible, go on Google and check out a picture of Deep Blue, the IBM big iron that trounced Kasparov in 1997 by playing at approximately 2850.
Compare against your iPhone, which can play offline (!! no cloud hosted assists) at 3200+.
In 30 years or likely much less, that power will be implanted in our heads, and we won't know where the meat stops and the machine begins.

Deep Blue was assisted by human input while the match was progressing, wasn't it? They matched the computations to K's style, strengths and weaknesses.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Optimissed wrote:

That's an interesting deviation from the norm. Your normal tactic is to make me the aggressor and you, the poor victim.

I wonder why you're talking about a moderator who was a moderator 10 or 15 years ago saying "she might have supported" you, when I clearly stated that the problem isn't with the moderators? Also I wonder about the fact that you call any comment I make "more fabrication".

Yet you constantly and consistently tell me that I make unsupported statements. If that ISN'T your fabrication, then is there some strange neurological reversal taking place, perhaps? You genuinely think that you are me? That could explain it, whereas more reasonable explanations seem to be against the rules. So that must be it.

You aren't actioned as much as you should be by the mods because they are told you're off limits. Also, you deny ever having been muted and yet you've been muted quite a lot but, unfortunately, not as much as you should have been, regarding all the abuse you've dished out over the years to 1000s of people. And I am not joking. Nor is that a fabrication. It's the truth.

You have not hit on the real reason I was just muted for 6 months. You haven't come close and it definitely wasn't for calling you whatever, because I took care to remain perfectly polite at all times. The reason was something else entirely. It was trying to address why a certain very small number of people are allowed to dish out abuse to anyone they fancy.

Thanks for spelling out your dysfunction so clearly.

1. Deviation, no. The D word in action here is yours: delusion. It defines your entire life from the moment you decided you were unique and had paranormal abilities in your ill-spent youth. I did not say I was an aggressor, nor did I say I was the victim. This type of thinking typifies your narcissistic worldview, where all people are ranked according to your self image. Everyone revers you, or they are your enemy. They all are beneath your apocryphal IQ number, etc. Even Einstein, lol. You can't get any more delusional than that...

You're a knick-knack man that evaluates, sorts, and sells knick-knacks...been one your whole life. You tramped your way across Turkey to get away from reality, and you've never stopped tramping since. Sorry to be blunt, but you are subconsciously begging for it. Your "I'm the smartest man in every room" stance is a poor defense mechanism that you have overworked to the point of catastrophic failure.

2. Batgirl was a moderator far more recently than 10-15 years ago. Just another sign that your memory at this stage is as unreliable as it gets.

3. The reason I have to constantly point out that you are fabricating things is the most obvious one...you make up almost everything and contort the rest to defend yourself from seeing who you are. I've bolded all your failed assumptions and fabrications above. Note how many of them require you to have clairvoyant knowledge of myself, staff/mods, and the viewpoints of every poster that reads either of our posts.

4. I am certainly not you, nor do I want to be you. I'd jump off the nearest cliff. This, again, hammers home your narcissism.

5. Apparently, you got muted because you screamed your delusions at staff about there being some "inside man", and they got fed up with it. There's no further explanation required for my ability to surf the waves while you sink, unless you are so fragile that you cannot accept events as they occur. I'm not sure why you would bother telling everyone this fact, since it's far worse than the serial mutings you got before...but that's the problem with delusion, isn't it? You cannot even perceive what you have done as anything but the actions of a righteous hero of the (unfortunately not at smart as you) masses, and you cannot conceive that other people do not see you this way.

6. Show me where I have ever denied being muted. In terms of moderator action, I was muted, along with you and Ibrust, I believe it was. That's the only time a mod has ever muted me, and it was part of a virtual swat team raid where 24 hour mutings were handed out without a lot of individual scrutiny.

7. Your "abuse of 1000s of people" delusion has been pointed out to you before. The absurdity of the claim is such that nobody but someone as embroiled in their own daydreaming as you are could take it remotely seriously. As for your counter assertion about always remaining polite...you are the reason that the word "id-ot" was added to the forum filter, much to the chagrin of many later on who only wanted to use it once in a blue moon. Such was your over-sprinkling of the term across the threads...

End of debunking.

Avatar of playerafar
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

Me too really. I'm not trying to drag you in.

It's a joke that a lot of people make, though, when they don't understand that there is an aggressor and a relatively normal person. If we ended up in a room I'm not sure who else would come back out. Have to be very careful though because he will interpret such innuendo as physical threat, even though we're about 4000 miles apart. The moderators are in general very good here, with a lot of common sense; but some staff are very gullible.

More fabrication, no backup. Your "he only gets the best of me all the time because he has staff secretly supporting him" has always been laughable on one side of it, pitiable on the other. The one mod that might have supported me, Batgirl, had far too much integrity to ever bend the rules to protect me (or anyone)...not that I ever would have asked.

That's an interesting deviation from the norm. Your normal tactic is to make me the aggressor and you, the poor victim.

I wonder why you're talking about a moderator who was a moderator 10 or 15 years ago saying "she might have supported" you, when I clearly stated that the problem isn't with the moderators? Also I wonder about the fact that you call any comment I make "more fabrication".

Yet you constantly and consistently tell me that I make unsupported statements. If that ISN'T your fabrication, then is there some strange neurological reversal taking place, perhaps? You genuinely think that you are me? That could explain it, whereas more reasonable explanations seem to be against the rules. So that must be it.

You aren't actioned as much as you should be by the mods because they are told you're off limits. Also, you deny ever having been muted and yet you've been muted quite a lot but, unfortunately, not as much as you should have been, regarding all the abuse you've dished out over the years to 1000s of people. And I am not joking. Nor is that a fabrication. It's the truth.

You have not hit on the real reason I was just muted for 6 months. You haven't come close and it definitely wasn't for calling you whatever, because I took care to remain perfectly polite at all times. The reason was something else entirely. It was trying to address why a certain very small number of people are allowed to dish out abuse to anyone they fancy.

It might indeed be unfair that you were muted Roger - while DiogenesDue was not.
Something I didn't see for a long time.
How could that have happened?
He has many denials about his behaviour but works very very hard to impose those denials.
But there's a flip side. He does make some effort to be careful. Some.
But after you were gone - he was caught red-handed on multiple occasions.
Something you'll probably see him intensely deny now.
He'll want 'pony up' but he knows what I'm referring to.
He has admitted the incidents happened.
Why does he target you?
He figures you're vulnerable.
Regarding the moderators here - I think that in a world of male chessplayers - they do quite well.
Erik knows how to market the 'target group'.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Cythaera wrote:
to get a sense of what it would mean and why the timeline is plausible, go on Google and check out a picture of Deep Blue, the IBM big iron that trounced Kasparov in 1997 by playing at approximately 2850.
Compare against your iPhone, which can play offline (!! no cloud hosted assists) at 3200+.
In 30 years or likely much less, that power will be implanted in our heads, and we won't know where the meat stops and the machine begins.

Your timeline is a bit too optimistic.

What you can reasonably expect in 30 years will be a smoother neural interface that allows for a highly partitioned relationship between man and machine. There will be a strong virtual fence involved.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
playerafar wrote:

It might indeed be unfair that you were muted Roger - while DiogenesDue was not.
Something I didn't see for a long time.
How could that have happened?
He has many denials about his behaviour but works very very hard to impose those denials.
But there's a flip side. He does make some effort to be careful. Some.
But after you were gone - he was caught red-handed on multiple occasions.
Something you'll probably see him intensely deny now.
He'll want 'pony up' but he knows what I'm referring to.
He has admitted the incidents happened.
Why does he target you?
He figures you're vulnerable.
Regarding the moderators here - I think that in a world of male chessplayers - they do quite well.
Erik knows how to market the 'target group'.

When are you going to accept that nobody cares anymore about your copycat poster being mistaken for you? It doesn't even rise to the point of a ToS violation, it was a simple indiscretion. I admitted it and apologized for it in particular. It's one of a handful of apologies I have made over the past decade. I don't claim to be perfect...or even smarter than everyone in the room...

Move on with your life, Player. It's a little telling that you are still holding onto this for dear life.

Avatar of playerafar

I didn't read DD's post just now. Its probably what i predicted.
Will see later if Optimssed quotes it and comments. Then might give it a glance.
DD either fails to understand that reading somebody's posts versus not reading them is not a binary A or B thing. Or he pretends to not get it.

Avatar of playerafar
Cythaera wrote:
@Octopus:
By "chess is dead" I meant simply that it would become boring and pointless to us, if it is solved and we know the outcomes of perfect/memorized play. Just as tic tac toe and checkers are boring to us.
But later I recanted that assertion by realizing that When (not If) that happens, we'll make it compelling again by increasing the board size and piece count to boost its complexity.

Good post. For some reason it quoted in smaller print in the editor but then got bigger when posted. Probably intentional.
And yes its important to have mystery in the game.
As to chess 'reaching a point' where they'd have to drastically change it because of 'knowing' -
chess seems quite safe from that for quite a while in the future.
Pardoxically - people usually back off chess because of the complexity rather than things being known.
Regarding the forum subject and 'the time it would take' ....
that relates to most people not playing at all - because of 'the time it would take'.
But time gets filled up anyway whether one spends it playin' or viewing or partying or boozin' or chasin' Mo money' or with family or whatever.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
playerafar wrote:

I didn't read DD's post just now. Its probably what i predicted.
Will see later if Optimssed quotes it and comments. Then might give it a glance.

It's painful to watch you trying to make posters believe you aren't reading every post you claim to skip. I know you have it in your head that if you just repeat it enough times it will work...but, alas...no.

Avatar of Cythaera
Optimissed: yes, IBM cheated for sure! Tuned it every night and refused a rematch! Yet still, the thing was bigger than four jumbo refrigerators!
Avatar of Cythaera
playerafar, :)

and thanks for reading my walls of text everyone.

someone posted that we don't understand the brain. Absolutely!!!! Aristotle called consciousness/qualia "the hard problem," and since then we've made little progress.

BUT, we will.
Avatar of DiogenesDue
Cythaera wrote:
Optimissed: yes, IBM cheated for sure! Tuned it every night and refused a rematch! Yet still, the thing was bigger than four jumbo refrigerators!

I have to point out that the rules allowed for adjustments between games. You know, like human players do?

There was no cheating. Kasparov played badly, by listening to his team and deciding to use some computer countering play that worked on old engines. He should have just played his best openings, set aside the assumptions of what computers do, and he might have won that 2nd match. Doesn't matter, by 2006 it was all over for humanity.