Statistical Analysis on Gender Difference

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Irontiger
johnsmithson wrote:

I think that if you want to think about your analysis you should think about this notion that Gaussian distributions are appropriate for modelling the abilities of the self-selected very best in a group.  The fact is that FIDE ratings are given only to people who are seriously good chessplayers (top 0.01% of the population).  In what distribution can we extract the top 0.01% of the population and expect that to be Gaussian? (Ans: Only some very odd mixture distribution).

It would be true only under the (wrong) assumption that the Elo ratings of the population we currently measure (top 0.01%, though I doubt that number) were the same at least in shape that if we measured the full population.

This is not true, because one's Elo rating is relative to the others' - said otherwise, for rating purposes, the sample population (top 0.01%) is competing only with themselves.

When you look at the OP's graph (#1), it looks much more gaussian than tail-of-gaussian.

evansgambit15
steve_bute wrote:
Yereslov wrote:

Would you honestly argue that Polgar stands a chance against Carlsen as of now?

Polgar had a few victories against the top players, but these were rarities. She lost very often to the top ten players.

Kosteniuk is another strong WGM, but she has trouble against players over 2700.

It just seems like men are better developed for chess.

In her prime, Polgar might have been a tough match for Carlsen. But it's unlikely she'll ever reach that level again.

no way see what carlsen did to anand!!!

evansgambit15

my theory is that God made men with better spaitial skills so that he could compete in the physical world to be a bread winner,that would translate into good chess,while women were made with better verbal skills to comunicate with the men and to help men bond and make relasionships with other families

bigpoison

Wow! your theory is really great!

DrSpudnik

My theory is that God made men with rotten prostates and bad hearts so they would just go away and stop bothering people.

Irontiger
evansgambit15 wrote:

my theory is that God made men with better spaitial skills so that he could compete in the physical world to be a bread winner,that would translate into good chess,while women were made with better verbal skills to comunicate with the men and to help men bond and make relasionships with other families

My theory is that misogynist bigots are made to be the fun and laughstock of other posters.

DrSpudnik

They bring such joy to our lives! Laughing

SilentKnighte5
evansgambit15 wrote:

my theory is that God made men with better spaitial skills so that he could compete in the physical world to be a bread winner,that would translate into good chess,while women were made with better verbal skills to comunicate with the men and to help men bond and make relasionships with other families

Solid theory.

CheckmateDavy

You're statistical analysis is incorrect. You don't have the entire population of people who plays chess in your analysis but only the right tail.

karl_frost

Has anyone tried to redo this statistical analysis, with 10 years of more data, partially fixing the right tail problem?
I would be curious.

I'll throw one more complication into the mix... the effect of pregnancy and being a mother. There was a study done a while ago of salary differences between men and women in the West. The study found that there is one, but if you ignore the very top executive level AND you correct the seniority for time taken off for maternity leave, you find that the difference mostly disappears... That is the salary difference between men and women in the same job is mostly due to time taken off for maternity leave.
While i don't know that there is a difference in women and men's development of chess skills over time, i think it would be good to correct for the asymmetric burden of child care.

DiogenesDue
karl_frost wrote:

Has anyone tried to redo this statistical analysis, with 10 years of more data, partially fixing the right tail problem?
I would be curious.

I'll throw one more complication into the mix... the effect of pregnancy and being a mother. There was a study done a while ago of salary differences between men and women in the West. The study found that there is one, but if you ignore the very top executive level AND you correct the seniority for time taken off for maternity leave, you find that the difference mostly disappears... That is the salary difference between men and women in the same job is mostly due to time taken off for maternity leave.
While i don't know that there is a difference in women and men's development of chess skills over time, i think it would be good to correct for the asymmetric burden of child care.

Link the study, if you are going to try to "throw your complication into the mix".

Slayerofbishopsandqueens
It isn’t that men are better “wired” for chess, it’s simply the fact that there’s less females due to sexism, harassment etc. One example of this is one I was a kid and playing in a state tournament there was about 20 players in a group and 30 groups… I was the only girl out of 20
Slayerofbishopsandqueens
And my group wasn’t the only one most of them only had two or three girl players in a group
ronarprfct
Slayerofbishopsandqueens wrote:
It isn’t that men are better “wired” for chess, it’s simply the fact that there’s less females due to sexism, harassment etc. One example of this is one I was a kid and playing in a state tournament there was about 20 players in a group and 30 groups… I was the only girl out of 20

You present a result-less girls-and posit a cause-sexism. You do this without any evidence or logic. There may actually have been fewer girls because girls are not as good at chess on average and people don't generally like losing. Judit Polgar was raised to become world champion, basically, but didn't come anywhere close. There is an obvious male advantage in chess ability-even if that ability is being obsessed with things that don't actually matter, and I don't think that is the only gender difference contributing to chess success. Men ARE better at spatial reasoning and visual ability, for instance. Judit Polgar would beat the pants off most men, and is arguably the best female player who ever lived(although Ellen Gilbert might have been better), but a few outliers don't a distribution make.

Creeperbot33

God made us all to be EQUAL. sure women may be able to dispense a young human, but other than that there isn't and shouldn't be any differences now should there? no one gender was made to have a advantage over the other.

ronarprfct
Creeperbot33 wrote:

God made us all to be EQUAL. sure women may be able to dispense a young human, but other than that there isn't and shouldn't be any differences now should there? no one gender was made to have a advantage over the other.

I Peter 3:7 would disagree with you. God made women to be a helpmeet suitable to men. Men DO have advantages over women. They have greater physical strength and a mind more suited to war. Chess is a game of simulated war. I've also thought that things possibly changed some because of Eve's actions in the garden. Women have those things to which they are better suited as well, but they are not the same things as those things to which men are better suited. Ask yourself which you'd rather have looking after your children-a man or a woman? We understand that caring for children is-in general-something women are much more capable at than men. My wife is a perfect example of that. I call her "teacherlady" because 1)She did teach for 27 years before retiring and 2)She is so good at caring for children and they love her so much that it is like she puts out a vibe that kids just receive. An example that I saw quite a few times: we would go into a store or other public place, and a kid who was facing completely the other way would turn around, look at my wife, and smile or even wave as though the kid FELT my wife's presence. When it comes to caring for and teaching little ones(she was an elementary ed teacher), she is unmatched. When it comes to keeping things organized, she is better than me. Men are better at some things, women at others. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus ." This doesn't mean we have the same strengths and proper roles-even among male Christians there are different strengths and roles(think of the verse about the hand not saying to the foot that it isn't needed just because it isn't a hand). My role in the church is not to be an elder. I don't currently meet the qualifications, though I am a male. Though men and women are both made in God 's image and to be honored, there are different roles and different strengths.

Creeperbot33

@RevenantTheCleansed back me up here. #97 could you perhaps recite Peter 3:7. for me?

Green_Sleeves

I would chime in, but it’s risky discussing religious topics on the public threads.

Creeperbot33

this has been going on for 5 pages i think its ok

EndgameEnthusiast2357

Another troll thread lol