By the way, that is the game link. I was black and the position occurs after MY 36th, 38th, and 40th moves, with white to move! Correct me if I'm wrong.
Threefold repetition does not necessarily have to be 3 moves in a row, just exactly the same position repeating 3 times with the same player to move. They could be 40 moves apart although humans wouldn't be too likely to notice that.
Uhhh... I know :-) It was the same position each time.
Threefold repetition does not necessarily have to be 3 moves in a row, just exactly the same position repeating 3 times with the same player to move. They could be 40 moves apart although humans wouldn't be too likely to notice that.
I once saw a successful 3-move-repition claim on about move 160 when the positions were 11 moves apart.
Threefold repetition does not necessarily have to be 3 moves in a row, just exactly the same position repeating 3 times with the same player to move. They could be 40 moves apart although humans wouldn't be too likely to notice that.
I once saw a successful 3-move-repition claim on about move 160 when the positions were 11 moves apart.
By the way, that is the game link. I was black and the position occurs after MY 36th, 38th, and 40th moves, with white to move! Correct me if I'm wrong.
Probably bad site code. Your opponent was able to claim 3 fold before making his move, whereas your 3-fold came after your move. The site code prevented you from claiming the 3-fold, because it came after you had to make your move. It's wrong for the site to do that of course, but the site is thinking you shouldn't be allowed to claim a draw on your opponent's turn. You must claim before moving, but that fails to cover scenarios like this.
By the way, that is the game link. I was black and the position occurs after MY 36th, 38th, and 40th moves, with white to move! Correct me if I'm wrong.
Probably bad site code. Your opponent was able to claim 3 fold before making his move, whereas your 3-fold came after your move. The site code prevented you from claiming the 3-fold, because it came after you had to make your move. It's wrong for the site to do that of course, but the site is thinking you shouldn't be allowed to claim a draw on your opponent's turn. You must claim before moving, but that fails to cover scenarios like this.
By the way, that is the game link. I was black and the position occurs after MY 36th, 38th, and 40th moves, with white to move! Correct me if I'm wrong.
Probably bad site code. Your opponent was able to claim 3 fold before making his move, whereas your 3-fold came after your move. The site code prevented you from claiming the 3-fold, because it came after you had to make your move. It's wrong for the site to do that of course, but the site is thinking you shouldn't be allowed to claim a draw on your opponent's turn. You must claim before moving, but that fails to cover scenarios like this.
Claiming draws online are always a little wierd. OTB you are supposed to claim before moving (FIDE) or before hitting your clock (USCF), but you can claim draws online after your move on certain sites (ICC I know of for sure). Not completely sure on how chess.com works on that one, but I can't remember having any problem claiming a draw here.
Out of curiosity, do you (JMB) have the original link (on chess.com) to the game? I only ask in case the USCL move list isn't correct, which wouldn't be the first time actually.
Threefold repetition does not necessarily have to be 3 moves in a row, just exactly the same position repeating 3 times with the same player to move. They could be 40 moves apart although humans wouldn't be too likely to notice that.
I once saw a successful 3-move-repition claim on about move 160 when the positions were 11 moves apart.
By the way, that is the game link. I was black and the position occurs after MY 36th, 38th, and 40th moves, with white to move! Correct me if I'm wrong.
Probably bad site code. Your opponent was able to claim 3 fold before making his move, whereas your 3-fold came after your move. The site code prevented you from claiming the 3-fold, because it came after you had to make your move. It's wrong for the site to do that of course, but the site is thinking you shouldn't be allowed to claim a draw on your opponent's turn. You must claim before moving, but that fails to cover scenarios like this.
Claiming draws online are always a little wierd. OTB you are supposed to claim before moving (FIDE) or before hitting your clock (USCF), but you can claim draws online after your move on certain sites (ICC I know of for sure). Not completely sure on how chess.com works on that one, but I can't remember having any problem claiming a draw here.
Out of curiosity, do you (JMB) have the original link (on chess.com) to the game? I only ask in case the USCL move list isn't correct, which wouldn't be the first time actually.
Some sites do take it into account properly, but I do recall chess.com has had a lot of problems in the past. I remember running into a very similar draw claim problem, where I was not allowed to claim a draw after my move because my opponent used conditionals. This gave me zero time to claim a draw after my move was made, which is why I got upset and lobbied for the online code to instant rule games a draw the moment a 3-fold comes up.
Playchess uses the auto-draw system, which makes it my favorite online place to play blitz. There's no getting screwed by such scenarios of 3-folds occuring on your opponent's turn but you're not allowed to claim it.
My first big OTB tournament was in the Chicago Open. It was the first round; I was rated around 900 or so and my opponent was 1100 or 1200. We were seated about in the middle of a long row where you needed to go past at least a dozen players to get to the end of the row.
My opponent apparently wanted to freak me out because after every one of his moves he would get out of his chair, walked to the end of the row and come and stand behind me as a I looked at the board.
I got so flustered that I soon lost that game. I didn't know it at the time, but I should have complained to the TD. To this day I'm bothered by the fact that I let that guy get to me.
I had a bit of "revenge" later when I beat one of his "buddies" in the 5th round.
My first big OTB tournament was in the Chicago Open. It was the first round; I was rated around 900 or so and my opponent was 1100 or 1200. We were seated about in the middle of a long row where you needed to go past at least a dozen players to get to the end of the row.
My opponent apparently wanted to freak me out because after every one of his moves he would get out of his chair, walked to the end of the row and come and stand behind me as a I looked at the board.
I got so flustered that I soon lost that game. I didn't know it at the time, but I should have complained to the TD. To this day I'm bothered by the fact that I let that guy get to me.
I had a bit of "revenge" later when I beat one of his "buddies" in the 5th round.
It's actually legal for the guy to get up and look at the board from your perspective, so long as he's not making noise or bumping into you.
My first big OTB tournament was in the Chicago Open. It was the first round; I was rated around 900 or so and my opponent was 1100 or 1200. We were seated about in the middle of a long row where you needed to go past at least a dozen players to get to the end of the row.
My opponent apparently wanted to freak me out because after every one of his moves he would get out of his chair, walked to the end of the row and come and stand behind me as a I looked at the board.
I got so flustered that I soon lost that game. I didn't know it at the time, but I should have complained to the TD. To this day I'm bothered by the fact that I let that guy get to me.
I had a bit of "revenge" later when I beat one of his "buddies" in the 5th round.
It's actually legal for the guy to get up and look at the board from your perspective, so long as he's not making noise or bumping into you.
According to FIDE chess rules " It is forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent in any manner whatsoever..."
I found it annoying and distracting, so I think I would have been within my rights to ask the TD to tell him to stop. there was another table with players behind me, so he was directly behind me.
My first big OTB tournament was in the Chicago Open. It was the first round; I was rated around 900 or so and my opponent was 1100 or 1200. We were seated about in the middle of a long row where you needed to go past at least a dozen players to get to the end of the row.
My opponent apparently wanted to freak me out because after every one of his moves he would get out of his chair, walked to the end of the row and come and stand behind me as a I looked at the board.
I got so flustered that I soon lost that game. I didn't know it at the time, but I should have complained to the TD. To this day I'm bothered by the fact that I let that guy get to me.
I had a bit of "revenge" later when I beat one of his "buddies" in the 5th round.
It's actually legal for the guy to get up and look at the board from your perspective, so long as he's not making noise or bumping into you.
According to FIDE chess rules " It is forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent in any manner whatsoever..."
I found it annoying and distracting, so I think I would have been within my rights to ask the TD to tell him to stop. there was another table with players behind me, so he was directly behind me.
And according to the USCF, standing behind your opponent to see the board from his perspective is perfectly legal. You can't just arbitrarily decide your opponent is distracting you. What if you decide his heavy breathing is distracting you? What if you decide his lime green shirt is distracting you?
Even in FIDE, your complaint has to be reasonable. There are TOP GM tournaments all the time where players get up after moving and then wander up to the board and watch from behind their opponent. They never get in trouble for it, because it's considered perfectly legal to do so.
You can feel free to get pissed off about it all you want, but you simply don't have a case. Players are allowed to watch from behind their opponent if they want to. As I said before, so long as they are not physically touching you or making noise, you have no case.
@firebrandX (and Samsch): I never said I had a problem with him watching from behind. This guy was hovering. You said as long as he didn't touch me, he should be okay. I say that if I reach up to put both hands on my head (elbows out, fingers interlaced) and I bump into the guy hovering over my shoulder...that's too close. That's not arbitrary nor unreasonable and I think any TD would back me up on that.
You say as long as he doesn't touch me, it should be okay. Would you feel distracted if your opponent put his head over your shoulder with his face 6 inches from yours, you wouldn't consider this annoying or distracting? There is a limit.
I was playing in a local interscholastic tournament and my opponent forgot to hit the clock after 1. e4. I stared at the board, pretending to think intensely about my next move while covering my mouth with my hands to hide a smile. My opponent was stifling laughter, visibly amused by my seeming stupefaction at the King's Pawn Opening. After about 10 minutes, my opponent was obviously extremely tickled by the time it was taking me to think... until he himself looked at the clock and pressed it under a blush of mortification. He was already down 10 minutes and proceeded to receive a crushing loss.
I was playing in a local interscholastic tournament and my opponent forgot to hit the clock after 1. e4. I stared at the board, pretending to think intensely about my next move while covering my mouth with my hands to hide a smile. My opponent was stifling laughter, visibly amused by my seeming stupefaction at the King's Pawn Opening. After about 10 minutes, my opponent was obviously extremely tickled by the time it was taking me to think... until he himself looked at the clock and pressed it under a blush of mortification. He was already down 10 minutes and proceeded to receive a crushing loss.
by FIDE rules if his clock ran all the way down to 0 without you moving, the game would count for tournament purposes but not be rated. Each player has to make a move for the game to be rated. I don't know how the USCF rules work here.
the position is below. I was playing in a tournament and realized this was a completely lost position. Somehow, I determined that Rc8 was mate. I whispered, "omg, that's checkmate, and I played the move." my opponent looks like he got a heart attack. Until the guy next to me told me that's an illegal move because my rook is pinned to the king. He obviously thought I was an idiot. But my opponent's like "dude, you scared the crap out of me." I felt so bad lol but it was hilarious..and I'm so idiotic haha
It's actually illegal for the guy observing to say anything, if your opponent did not see the rook is pinned and thinks the game is over and shakes your hand.. you actually win the game believe it or not.
As opposed to the observer, if he said that and he is playing in the tournament, there would be a penalty on him.
For me, the weirdest thing to ever happen was an arrest of the player sitting next to me.
...
Holy moly. I played in that event in the U1600 (tied first) and don't remember that happening. Must have been after I finshed a game and left the room. As I recall Wojo won the event easily.
I was playing in a local interscholastic tournament and my opponent forgot to hit the clock after 1. e4. I stared at the board, pretending to think intensely about my next move while covering my mouth with my hands to hide a smile. My opponent was stifling laughter, visibly amused by my seeming stupefaction at the King's Pawn Opening. After about 10 minutes, my opponent was obviously extremely tickled by the time it was taking me to think... until he himself looked at the clock and pressed it under a blush of mortification. He was already down 10 minutes and proceeded to receive a crushing loss.
by FIDE rules if his clock ran all the way down to 0 without you moving, the game would count for tournament purposes but not be rated. Each player has to make a move for the game to be rated. I don't know how the USCF rules work here.
In that scenario since the player was there and ran out of time, most TDs here would just log it as a loss.
http://www.uschessleague.com/games2/liuburke12.htm
By the way, that is the game link. I was black and the position occurs after MY 36th, 38th, and 40th moves, with white to move! Correct me if I'm wrong.
Threefold repetition does not necessarily have to be 3 moves in a row, just exactly the same position repeating 3 times with the same player to move. They could be 40 moves apart although humans wouldn't be too likely to notice that.
Uhhh... I know :-) It was the same position each time.
I once saw a successful 3-move-repition claim on about move 160 when the positions were 11 moves apart.
I once saw a successful 3-move-repition claim on about move 160 when the positions were 11 moves apart.
Wow!
http://www.uschessleague.com/games2/liuburke12.htm
By the way, that is the game link. I was black and the position occurs after MY 36th, 38th, and 40th moves, with white to move! Correct me if I'm wrong.
Probably bad site code. Your opponent was able to claim 3 fold before making his move, whereas your 3-fold came after your move. The site code prevented you from claiming the 3-fold, because it came after you had to make your move. It's wrong for the site to do that of course, but the site is thinking you shouldn't be allowed to claim a draw on your opponent's turn. You must claim before moving, but that fails to cover scenarios like this.
http://www.uschessleague.com/games2/liuburke12.htm
By the way, that is the game link. I was black and the position occurs after MY 36th, 38th, and 40th moves, with white to move! Correct me if I'm wrong.
Probably bad site code. Your opponent was able to claim 3 fold before making his move, whereas your 3-fold came after your move. The site code prevented you from claiming the 3-fold, because it came after you had to make your move. It's wrong for the site to do that of course, but the site is thinking you shouldn't be allowed to claim a draw on your opponent's turn. You must claim before moving, but that fails to cover scenarios like this.
Thanks for the explanation!
http://www.uschessleague.com/games2/liuburke12.htm
By the way, that is the game link. I was black and the position occurs after MY 36th, 38th, and 40th moves, with white to move! Correct me if I'm wrong.
Probably bad site code. Your opponent was able to claim 3 fold before making his move, whereas your 3-fold came after your move. The site code prevented you from claiming the 3-fold, because it came after you had to make your move. It's wrong for the site to do that of course, but the site is thinking you shouldn't be allowed to claim a draw on your opponent's turn. You must claim before moving, but that fails to cover scenarios like this.
Claiming draws online are always a little wierd. OTB you are supposed to claim before moving (FIDE) or before hitting your clock (USCF), but you can claim draws online after your move on certain sites (ICC I know of for sure). Not completely sure on how chess.com works on that one, but I can't remember having any problem claiming a draw here.
Out of curiosity, do you (JMB) have the original link (on chess.com) to the game? I only ask in case the USCL move list isn't correct, which wouldn't be the first time actually.
I once saw a successful 3-move-repition claim on about move 160 when the positions were 11 moves apart.
Wow!
in fact it was even longer than I thought
http://chesstempo.com/gamedb/game/3294448
positions after 162...Kf6, 173...Kf6, and 181...Kf6 were the same.
Due to the 30-second increments and game length the next round was 1 hour late.
must have been hard to recognize that.
http://www.uschessleague.com/games2/liuburke12.htm
By the way, that is the game link. I was black and the position occurs after MY 36th, 38th, and 40th moves, with white to move! Correct me if I'm wrong.
Probably bad site code. Your opponent was able to claim 3 fold before making his move, whereas your 3-fold came after your move. The site code prevented you from claiming the 3-fold, because it came after you had to make your move. It's wrong for the site to do that of course, but the site is thinking you shouldn't be allowed to claim a draw on your opponent's turn. You must claim before moving, but that fails to cover scenarios like this.
Claiming draws online are always a little wierd. OTB you are supposed to claim before moving (FIDE) or before hitting your clock (USCF), but you can claim draws online after your move on certain sites (ICC I know of for sure). Not completely sure on how chess.com works on that one, but I can't remember having any problem claiming a draw here.
Out of curiosity, do you (JMB) have the original link (on chess.com) to the game? I only ask in case the USCL move list isn't correct, which wouldn't be the first time actually.
Some sites do take it into account properly, but I do recall chess.com has had a lot of problems in the past. I remember running into a very similar draw claim problem, where I was not allowed to claim a draw after my move because my opponent used conditionals. This gave me zero time to claim a draw after my move was made, which is why I got upset and lobbied for the online code to instant rule games a draw the moment a 3-fold comes up.
Playchess uses the auto-draw system, which makes it my favorite online place to play blitz. There's no getting screwed by such scenarios of 3-folds occuring on your opponent's turn but you're not allowed to claim it.
great thread. i have nothing to add.
My first big OTB tournament was in the Chicago Open. It was the first round; I was rated around 900 or so and my opponent was 1100 or 1200. We were seated about in the middle of a long row where you needed to go past at least a dozen players to get to the end of the row.
My opponent apparently wanted to freak me out because after every one of his moves he would get out of his chair, walked to the end of the row and come and stand behind me as a I looked at the board.
I got so flustered that I soon lost that game. I didn't know it at the time, but I should have complained to the TD. To this day I'm bothered by the fact that I let that guy get to me.
I had a bit of "revenge" later when I beat one of his "buddies" in the 5th round.
My first big OTB tournament was in the Chicago Open. It was the first round; I was rated around 900 or so and my opponent was 1100 or 1200. We were seated about in the middle of a long row where you needed to go past at least a dozen players to get to the end of the row.
My opponent apparently wanted to freak me out because after every one of his moves he would get out of his chair, walked to the end of the row and come and stand behind me as a I looked at the board.
I got so flustered that I soon lost that game. I didn't know it at the time, but I should have complained to the TD. To this day I'm bothered by the fact that I let that guy get to me.
I had a bit of "revenge" later when I beat one of his "buddies" in the 5th round.
It's actually legal for the guy to get up and look at the board from your perspective, so long as he's not making noise or bumping into you.
My first big OTB tournament was in the Chicago Open. It was the first round; I was rated around 900 or so and my opponent was 1100 or 1200. We were seated about in the middle of a long row where you needed to go past at least a dozen players to get to the end of the row.
My opponent apparently wanted to freak me out because after every one of his moves he would get out of his chair, walked to the end of the row and come and stand behind me as a I looked at the board.
I got so flustered that I soon lost that game. I didn't know it at the time, but I should have complained to the TD. To this day I'm bothered by the fact that I let that guy get to me.
I had a bit of "revenge" later when I beat one of his "buddies" in the 5th round.
It's actually legal for the guy to get up and look at the board from your perspective, so long as he's not making noise or bumping into you.
According to FIDE chess rules " It is forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent in any manner whatsoever..."
I found it annoying and distracting, so I think I would have been within my rights to ask the TD to tell him to stop. there was another table with players behind me, so he was directly behind me.
My first big OTB tournament was in the Chicago Open. It was the first round; I was rated around 900 or so and my opponent was 1100 or 1200. We were seated about in the middle of a long row where you needed to go past at least a dozen players to get to the end of the row.
My opponent apparently wanted to freak me out because after every one of his moves he would get out of his chair, walked to the end of the row and come and stand behind me as a I looked at the board.
I got so flustered that I soon lost that game. I didn't know it at the time, but I should have complained to the TD. To this day I'm bothered by the fact that I let that guy get to me.
I had a bit of "revenge" later when I beat one of his "buddies" in the 5th round.
It's actually legal for the guy to get up and look at the board from your perspective, so long as he's not making noise or bumping into you.
According to FIDE chess rules " It is forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent in any manner whatsoever..."
I found it annoying and distracting, so I think I would have been within my rights to ask the TD to tell him to stop. there was another table with players behind me, so he was directly behind me.
And according to the USCF, standing behind your opponent to see the board from his perspective is perfectly legal. You can't just arbitrarily decide your opponent is distracting you. What if you decide his heavy breathing is distracting you? What if you decide his lime green shirt is distracting you?
Even in FIDE, your complaint has to be reasonable. There are TOP GM tournaments all the time where players get up after moving and then wander up to the board and watch from behind their opponent. They never get in trouble for it, because it's considered perfectly legal to do so.
You can feel free to get pissed off about it all you want, but you simply don't have a case. Players are allowed to watch from behind their opponent if they want to. As I said before, so long as they are not physically touching you or making noise, you have no case.
@firebrandX (and Samsch): I never said I had a problem with him watching from behind. This guy was hovering. You said as long as he didn't touch me, he should be okay. I say that if I reach up to put both hands on my head (elbows out, fingers interlaced) and I bump into the guy hovering over my shoulder...that's too close. That's not arbitrary nor unreasonable and I think any TD would back me up on that.
You say as long as he doesn't touch me, it should be okay. Would you feel distracted if your opponent put his head over your shoulder with his face 6 inches from yours, you wouldn't consider this annoying or distracting? There is a limit.
I was playing in a local interscholastic tournament and my opponent forgot to hit the clock after 1. e4. I stared at the board, pretending to think intensely about my next move while covering my mouth with my hands to hide a smile. My opponent was stifling laughter, visibly amused by my seeming stupefaction at the King's Pawn Opening. After about 10 minutes, my opponent was obviously extremely tickled by the time it was taking me to think... until he himself looked at the clock and pressed it under a blush of mortification. He was already down 10 minutes and proceeded to receive a crushing loss.
I was playing in a local interscholastic tournament and my opponent forgot to hit the clock after 1. e4. I stared at the board, pretending to think intensely about my next move while covering my mouth with my hands to hide a smile. My opponent was stifling laughter, visibly amused by my seeming stupefaction at the King's Pawn Opening. After about 10 minutes, my opponent was obviously extremely tickled by the time it was taking me to think... until he himself looked at the clock and pressed it under a blush of mortification. He was already down 10 minutes and proceeded to receive a crushing loss.
by FIDE rules if his clock ran all the way down to 0 without you moving, the game would count for tournament purposes but not be rated. Each player has to make a move for the game to be rated. I don't know how the USCF rules work here.
This is pretty embarrassing but whatever.
the position is below. I was playing in a tournament and realized this was a completely lost position. Somehow, I determined that Rc8 was mate. I whispered, "omg, that's checkmate, and I played the move." my opponent looks like he got a heart attack. Until the guy next to me told me that's an illegal move because my rook is pinned to the king. He obviously thought I was an idiot. But my opponent's like "dude, you scared the crap out of me." I felt so bad lol but it was hilarious..and I'm so idiotic haha
It's actually illegal for the guy observing to say anything, if your opponent did not see the rook is pinned and thinks the game is over and shakes your hand.. you actually win the game believe it or not.
As opposed to the observer, if he said that and he is playing in the tournament, there would be a penalty on him.
For me, the weirdest thing to ever happen was an arrest of the player sitting next to me.
...
Holy moly. I played in that event in the U1600 (tied first) and don't remember that happening. Must have been after I finshed a game and left the room. As I recall Wojo won the event easily.
I was playing in a local interscholastic tournament and my opponent forgot to hit the clock after 1. e4. I stared at the board, pretending to think intensely about my next move while covering my mouth with my hands to hide a smile. My opponent was stifling laughter, visibly amused by my seeming stupefaction at the King's Pawn Opening. After about 10 minutes, my opponent was obviously extremely tickled by the time it was taking me to think... until he himself looked at the clock and pressed it under a blush of mortification. He was already down 10 minutes and proceeded to receive a crushing loss.
by FIDE rules if his clock ran all the way down to 0 without you moving, the game would count for tournament purposes but not be rated. Each player has to make a move for the game to be rated. I don't know how the USCF rules work here.
In that scenario since the player was there and ran out of time, most TDs here would just log it as a loss.