Anti Cheating Puzzle :D

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Avatar of GMahatma
magipi wrote:
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
magipi wrote:

Also,  I don't understand why not simply 1. Kxg1.

I know my first posts were long and detailed, but 1. Kxg1 leaves the White King unable to infiltrate and make progress.

There is no way for the white king to pass through the pawns anyway.

I am 100% convinced that the diagram is wrong and the black bishop should be on h2.

 

chill man, I played the position vs stockfish who gives it 0.00 dead draw and I win. the diagram is right.

Avatar of KeSetoKaiba
magipi wrote:
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
magipi wrote:

Also,  I don't understand why not simply 1. Kxg1.

I know my first posts were long and detailed, but 1. Kxg1 leaves the White King unable to infiltrate and make progress.

There is no way for the white king to pass through the pawns anyway.

I am 100% convinced that the diagram is wrong and the black bishop should be on h2.

If the diagram is wrong in the original position, then that might explain why I've spent a lot of time on this puzzle yesterday and still had no success. At this point, I've stopped trying to come up with ideas and am just waiting for the thread op to post the real solution (either by someone in this thread solving it and the thread op confirming it or by the thread op figuring out the puzzle solution themselves).

Avatar of TheUnderDog001

If Kxg1 then h6 should draw. 

Avatar of GMahatma
TheUnderDog001 wrote:

If Kxg1 then h6 should draw. 

exactly. that's why 1.h6 is forced.

Avatar of Ethereal
magipi wrote:
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
magipi wrote:

Also,  I don't understand why not simply 1. Kxg1.

I know my first posts were long and detailed, but 1. Kxg1 leaves the White King unable to infiltrate and make progress.

There is no way for the white king to pass through the pawns anyway.

I am 100% convinced that the diagram is wrong and the black bishop should be on h2.

Kxg1 h6! by black and white cannot force a pawn through happy.png

It's a move that nobody looks at, but freezes the white pawns. If white plays g6, then Kg7 and black's king blockades the pawns and there is no way to make progress.

If gxh6, then Kh7! f6 Kxh6 and black's king will just shuffle from h6 to h7, and if white ever plays f7 then Kg7 and black wins the pawn.

Avatar of dude0812
magipi wrote:
GMahatma wrote:

try this vs stockfish (he will move the king a bit before he loses the bishop but lol engines):

1. h6 Bh2 2. a3 c5 3. g6 c4 4. f6 hxg6 5. Ke1 c6 6. Kf1 g5 7. Ke1 Bg1 8. Kd1 Bh2 9. Kc1 Bg1 10. Kb1 Bh2 11. Ka1 Bg1 12. Kb1 Bh2 13. Ka2 c5 14. Kb1 Bg1 15. Kc1 a6 16. Kb1 Bh2 17. Ka2 a5 18. Kb1 Bg1 19. Kc1 Bh2 20. Kd1 Bg1 21. Ke1 Bh2 22. Kf1 Bg1 23. Kxg1 Kf7 24. h7

 

I tried as animated diagram, it's not working sry for format.

Why would black play a pointless 3. - c4? Play hxg6 and now what?

After hxg6 white plays f6. Black will eventually run out of waiting moves, he will have to move his king from g8 and that's when white promotes either the f pawn or the h pawn.

Avatar of dude0812
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
magipi wrote:
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
magipi wrote:

Also,  I don't understand why not simply 1. Kxg1.

I know my first posts were long and detailed, but 1. Kxg1 leaves the White King unable to infiltrate and make progress.

There is no way for the white king to pass through the pawns anyway.

I am 100% convinced that the diagram is wrong and the black bishop should be on h2.

If the diagram is wrong in the original position, then that might explain why I've spent a lot of time on this puzzle yesterday and still had no success. At this point, I've stopped trying to come up with ideas and am just waiting for the thread op to post the real solution (either by someone in this thread solving it and the thread op confirming it or by the thread op figuring out the puzzle solution themselves).

GMMahatma did solve it. The best way to show you the solution is to play it out. I will play white, you can play black. I created another forum thread where we can post our moves. Here is the link to it https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/solving-the-anti-cheating-puzzle?page=1#last_comment

Here is the FEN of the starting position 6k1/p1p4p/2p5/5PPP/p5p1/2p2pP1/P1P2P2/5KbN w - - 0 1

Avatar of dude0812

Just post the move as a comment in my forum thread https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/solving-the-anti-cheating-puzzle?page=1#last_comment

Avatar of dude0812
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
dude0812 wrote:

I think I get it. After 1.h6 Kf7 you do the triangulation thing to deprive black of bishop waiting moves and then black's king needs to go back to the back rank and then white plays g6 hxg6 f6. Yes, I think you solved it!

Hate to rain on the parade, but 1. h6 Bh2 is still an alternative (as is Black advancing a Queenside pawn too) as the Black King isn't forced to budge. So what if White can create one passed pawn? The Black King can still hold it based on its defensive location. Even if White had two connected passed pawns, it isn't enough to win on its own.

 

 

I mentioned the 1.h6 Kf7 line because for whatever reason I had a brainfart and I didn't understand how you win there despite understanding how to win after 1.h6 Bh2. White wins the bishop either on the second move, or via b1-a1-a2 triangulation and deprives black of bishop waiting moves. Black will eventually run out of pawn moves and he will have to move his king every turn. Let's play the game out here in this forum thread. I will play white. Just post your move as a comment. https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/solving-the-anti-cheating-puzzle?page=1#last_comment

Here is the FEN of the starting position if you want to put it into a chess program 6k1/p1p4p/2p5/5PPP/p5p1/2p2pP1/P1P2P2/5KbN w - - 0 1

Avatar of Arisktotle
dude0812 wrote:

..... That's all well and good but I don't understand how you win if after white plays h6 black just plays Kf7 Kf8 Kg8. I tried f6 in that situation but when white plays f6 black can play Kf7 and then move his king back and forth between f7 and g6

As soon as bK leaves the f7 square (and white can always force him to by zugzwang) white plays wPg6 bPh7xg6 wPf6 bKg8 and black ends up in zugwang after more triangles on a1/a2/b1. And finally a white pawn breaks through and promotes!

Avatar of dude0812
Arisktotle wrote:
dude0812 wrote:

..... That's all well and good but I don't understand how you win if after white plays h6 black just plays Kf7 Kf8 Kg8. I tried f6 in that situation but when white plays f6 black can play Kf7 and then move his king back and forth between f7 and g6

As soon as bK leaves the f7 square (and white can always force him to by zugzwang) white plays wPg6 bPh7xg6 wPf6 bKg8 and black ends up in zugwang after more triangles on a1/a2/b1. And finally a white pawn breaks through and promotes!

Thank you, but that comment was from a long time ago, I figured that out yesterday, we now have new people who don't get the winning idea.

Avatar of Arisktotle

Right! This study will continue to attract people who don't get it. It looks simpler than it is.

Btw, there is an interesting question. Can the endgame be extended without harming the solution logic? It's always a challenge to make a long solution even longer!

Avatar of GMahatma
Arisktotle wrote:

Right! This study will continue to attract people who don't get it. It looks simpler than it is.

Btw, there is an interesting question. Can the endgame be extended without harming the solution logic? It's always a challenge to make a long solution even longer!

 

add more pawns for black is the most obvious thing. 

Avatar of Ethereal
Arisktotle wrote:

Right! This study will continue to attract people who don't get it. It looks simpler than it is.

Btw, there is an interesting question. Can the endgame be extended without harming the solution logic? It's always a challenge to make a long solution even longer!

Check out some of those mate in 100+ puzzles for inspiration tongue.png

Avatar of deltaTM

1. h6 Bh2 2. a3 Kf7 3. Ke1 Bg1 4. Kd1 Bh2 5. Kc1 Bg1 6. Kb1 Bh2 7. Ka1 Bg1 8. Ka2 Bh2 9. Kb1 Bg1 10. Kc1 Bh2 11. Kd1 Bg1 12. Ke1 Bh2 13. Kf1 Bg1 (black will move a pawn but eventually run out of moves, here is a shorter variation) 14. Kxg1 Kg8 15. g6 hxg6 16. f6 Kh7 17. f7 Kxh6 18. f8=Q+ (If black plays a3 then we take the bishop and no longer need the triangulation)

Avatar of deltaTM

It isn’t engine-proof tho just remove the a7 c7 and c6 pawns stockfish handles it pretty well

Avatar of Arisktotle
GMahatma wrote:
Arisktotle wrote:

.... Btw, there is an interesting question. Can the endgame be extended without harming the solution logic? It's always a challenge to make a long solution even longer!

add more pawns for black is the most obvious thing. 

That's not possible as the position needs to stay legal. There are already 8 black pawns on the board!

Avatar of Arisktotle
CrystalY_1001 wrote:
Arisktotle wrote:

...... Btw, there is an interesting question. Can the endgame be extended without harming the solution logic? It's always a challenge to make a long solution even longer!

Check out some of those mate in 100+ puzzles for inspiration

I already did for a while. Even repaired one of Blathy's 100+ illegal anaconda's wink

Avatar of not_cl0ud

@KeSetoKaiba

(Blah Blah Blah comment 2-4 which are very long)

Yes, I agree, it is hard but good.

Avatar of not_cl0ud
deltaTM wrote:

It isn’t engine-proof tho just remove the a7 c7 and c6 pawns stockfish handles it pretty well

surprise.png u use stockfish