Covid-19 Discussion (moderated)

This was in the news last year, and I just looked and there were zero deaths attributed to the rally and Covid. It’s safer than downtown New York and Chicago. 

- The vaccines have been tested as much as any vaccines in history over the course of the time available.  If anyone's premise is that they need to wait 5-10 years to be sure, then you might as well never get vaccinated for anything until a vaccine has been in use for 75-100 years, which would be the only way to be "sure".

Vaccines are largely responsible for human life expectancy doubling since the 1800s.

- Sturgis 2020 had 290 cases identified (who knows how many unidentified), who all went home somewhere and possibly infected many others.  That is a about 10 times more than what qualifies as a "super spreader" event. 

There's no way to know how many deaths resulted, and certainly no way to make any valid comparisons with selected sections of NY or Chicago.  But here's at least one death in Minnesota traced back to the rally:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e1.htm

...so, pony up some links/support, or stop making claims, your choice.

The vaccines have been tested as much as any vaccines in history over the course of the time available.  If anyone's premise is that they need to wait 5-10 years to be sure, then you might as well never get vaccinated for anything until a vaccine has been in use for 75-100 years, which would be the only way to be "sure".

Vaccines are largely responsible for human life expectancy doubling since the 1920s and are far and away the most effective medical measures ever undertaken, with the least negative impact.

Sturgis 2020 had 414 cases identified (who knows how many unidentified), who all went home somewhere and possibly infected many others.  That is about 10-15 times more than what generally seems to qualify as a "super spreader" event. 

There's no way to know how many deaths resulted, and certainly no way to make any valid comparisons with selected sections of NY or Chicago.  But here's at least one biker death in Minnesota traced back to the rally:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e1.htm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/02/sturgis-rally-death-coronavirus/

Pony up some links/support when you post here, or stop making claims entirely, your choice.  Second and last warning.

Of course I read the link.  You are misrepresenting again.  It's one confirmed death, and no way to be certain of other deaths.  Your statement is a mistake or a lie, your choice.

You claimed that you "just looked" and that there were no deaths.  So you didn't look very hard, or maybe your competence is simply lacking.  I didn't try to put forth any new claims here, about 460,000 or anything else.  You did, and you were wrong, as per usual. 

Now stop posting Covid information without fact checking beforehand.  

I see you have decided to dispense with the pretense that your "father" was going to curtail your posting (re: the climate change thread).  I find the "my little brother posted all that bad stuff but now I am back in charge" tactic to be the most reprehensible and weasel-worthy of all the juvenile ways that posters attempt to exonerate themselves.  Craven would be the word for it.

I guess you didn't read any of the articles when you were "just looking".  The CDC report says "likely" because they themselves did not verify the chain of transmission directly in person.  The Washington Post article previously linked is pretty damn clear about it, though:

"A Minnesota biker who attended the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally has died of covid-19 — the first fatality from the virus traced to the 10-day event that drew more than 400,000 to South Dakota.
The man was in his 60s, had underlying conditions and was hospitalized in intensive care after returning from the rally, said Kris Ehresmann, infectious-disease director at the Minnesota Department of Health."

So you agree that you lied. What a dolt. Good bye. Every time he lies and gets caught, he blocks people. Watch. 

What can be agreed upon is that you didn't read what was posted.  As for goodbye, I also agree...you are done here.  I'm tired of doing your homework for you every time you post some unsubstantiated BS (here or elsewhere) only to have you keep trying to spout new BS that is also unsupported.

You wouldn't be able to discern the truth vs. a lie if your life depended on it (and it does).

Already the Delta variant is a problem,  but Dr Fauci is worried about the next mutations too; probably like all other experts unless someone has evidence to the contrary. But what we lack evidence for is evidence, on the part of a sizable part of the population of some understanding of the fact that the less people are vaccinated the more it gives the virus an opportunity to mutate and develop another "stronger than before" variant. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/beyond-delta-scientists-are-watching-new-coronavirus-variants-2021-08-08/

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/beyond-delta-scientists-are-watching-new-coronavirus-variants-2021-08-08/

Dr Fauci talking about school too. Not about the significance of kids having been hugely distracted in their  learning by  the pandemic but he should

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/covid-19-and-education-the-lingering-effects-of-unfinished-learning#

   I doubt btickler is lying about anything. He's just trying to keep the thread clean. Its the only way we can help each other stay alive.

I fully understand why the vaccines were rushed out, and for good reason.  All Im saying is that we dont know any long term negative implications. 

He has done an incredible job of keeping this on point.  And considering the people this forum draws, that's an amazing accomplishment.

Whatever you want to imagine as long  term implications Intl bacon, and write a novel about it. I can't remember having read a good novel about a good vaccine gone wrong 😕 The experts say FDA definitive  approval is a true technicality and the idea that the vaccines already authorized aren't good enough a false narrative 

Research things like the following:

The Cutter incident.

Anytime you involve people, things can, do, and will go wrong.  Again Im not saying it was a mistake to get vaccines out there for people.  Obviously it was the right thing to do.  Again, Im just saying that in the long term we dont know.

True enough, but traditional vaccines are following the same methodologies and should be no more dangerous than getting Covid itself even in the worst possible case scenario.  The mRNA vaccines are new, but honestly, they should be even safer, because rather than taking a neutered snippet of the virus that is still an unknown in some ways and then using that neutered virus to spur the immune system, mRNA vaccines make the Covid-19 "hooks" from scratch...and, while mRNA *vaccines* are new, the mRNA technology itself is 8-10 years old now and is used successfully in many applications.

I have always had an ace in the hole on this topic...my ex-wife is a microbiologist.

If people want to worry about something microscopic, worry about CRISPR gene editing.  What human beings will do is far worse than what nature will evolve itself.  There are people trying to breed glow-in-the-dark dobermans that can regrow limbs like a starfish , and this type of gene editing is almost completely unregulated and kits are available online for about a hundred bucks.

I just shake my head at how people react to things like this. 

You have those that wont get the vaccine because they dont want "big brother" tracking them.  But have no problem carrying a cell phone around all the time. 

You have those that are/were scared to death,  shutdown and quit living. 

You have those like me, that took it for what it is.  A virus that can be deadly to certain segments of society.  I just wanted to do the proper research before getting vaccinated.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wont-covid-vaccine-bosses-may-050106083.html

Smokers pay higher premiums so this seems fair.