The Science of Biological Evolution (no politics or religion) - Chess Forums - Page 434

Elroch · 2015-03-07T11:45:05-08:00

This topic has been created in response to the closure of the previous one on this topic caused by people who ignored the ban on religion and politics in the Off Topic forum. To avoid this happening again, I regret to have to point out that anyone who does similarly in this thread will be permanentl

TheAuthority

Dec 26, 2016

0

#8661

Telestu wrote:

chessking1976 wrote:

If you just want to argue about what to call it (a popular past time here) sure, call it nature.

It's more than a name though. For example a supernatural god uses something like magic where things spontaneously pop into existence.

A natural higher power may, for example, create the earth by setting into motion the natural processes that eventually led to this planet. In that sense its function is more of a constructor and/or designer. The way you may imagine a person designing and then assembling a watch.

i don't have to imagine the watchmaker. We know and understand this process, albeit an incredibly complex process, it can be described and understood.

llama

Dec 26, 2016

0

#8662

Ok I'll try to be more clear.

The original or first origin of matter itself or energy itself is unknown.

The origin of this particular formation of matter and energy (our observable universe) is theorized to have been the big bang.

---

If something doesn't have an origin, it's hard for us to even imagine what that means.

But notice it's just as easily applied to reality. We can give the answer "energy and matter have always existed" (although IMO that's just as nonsensical as "God has always existed").

llama

Dec 26, 2016

0

#8663

chessking1976 wrote:

Telestu wrote:

chessking1976 wrote:

If you just want to argue about what to call it (a popular past time here) sure, call it nature.

It's more than a name though. For example a supernatural god uses something like magic where things spontaneously pop into existence.

A natural higher power may, for example, create the earth by setting into motion the natural processes that eventually led to this planet. In that sense its function is more of a constructor and/or designer. The way you may imagine a person designing and then assembling a watch.

i don't have to imagine the watchmaker. We know and understand this process, albeit an incredibly complex process, it can be described and understood.

I didn't ask you to. I said in "the way you might imagine" because I was drawing a parallel between the natural process of assembling a watch from pre existing parts using a natural process and assembling the earth from pre existing parts using a natural process.

NoSecretToTheGallery

Dec 26, 2016

0

#8664

tedious ...

'Supernatural' is a real word and has a valid purpose in conversation.

llama

Dec 26, 2016

0

#8665

NoSecretToTheGallery wrote:

'Supernatural' is a real word and has a valid purpose in conversation.

Same for "infinity"

In fact it's a useful concept in mathematics.

But does it exist in reality? No.

robertjames_perez

Dec 26, 2016

0

#8666

Planet Nine,a Trans-Neptunian Object,is thought to be larger than Uranus.

It is not seen but have evidence that some planet may exist farther than Sedna.

opiejames

Dec 26, 2016

0

#8667

Telestu wrote:

Ok I'll try to be more clear.

The original or first origin of matter itself or energy itself is unknown.

The origin of this particular formation of matter and energy (our observable universe) is theorized to have originated with the big bang.

---

If something doesn't have an origin, it's hard to even imagine what that means. This is true, but it is possible to begin to accept it if you realize that time and space as we know it didn't exist before the Big Bang. We understand time as linear, but it probably is not that way outside our universe. This is true whether there is a God or not.

But notice it's just as easily applied to reality. We can give the answer "energy and matter have always existed" (although IMO that's just as nonsensical as "God has always existed"). Philosophy (Dr. Hilbert - German philosopher) has determined that matter and energy cannot have always existed. Look up the Infinite Hotel Paradox to see why. It's interesting.

Science does not have a clue what is outside our universe. We know the universe is expanding and how fast, but nobody knows what it is expanding into. Before the universe started we have no idea what time means, therefore, some physicists say it doesn't even make sense to talk about "before" the Big Bang. I have no problem thinking this unknown is God. The alternative is some unknown and probably unknowable naturalistic process.

llama

Dec 26, 2016

0

#8668

opiejames wrote:

Telestu wrote:

Ok I'll try to be more clear.

The original or first origin of matter itself or energy itself is unknown.

The origin of this particular formation of matter and energy (our observable universe) is theorized to have originated with the big bang.

---

If something doesn't have an origin, it's hard to even imagine what that means. This is true, but it is possible to begin to accept it if you realize that time and space as we know it didn't exist before the Big Bang. We understand time as linear, but it probably is not that way outside our universe. This is true whether there is a God or not. I agree.

But notice it's just as easily applied to reality. We can give the answer "energy and matter have always existed" (although IMO that's just as nonsensical as "God has always existed"). Philosophy (Dr. Hilbert - German philosopher) has determined that matter and energy cannot have always existed. Look up the Infinite Hotel Paradox to see why. It's interesting. Sounds interesting, I'll check it out.

Science does not have a clue what is outside our universe. We know the universe is expanding and how fast, but nobody knows what it is expanding into. Before the universe started we have no idea what time means, therefore, some physicists say it doesn't even make sense to talk about "before" the Big Bang. I have no problem thinking this unknown is God. The criticism of this is that a person confines God to an ever shrinking box of "things that science can't explain." The so called "God of the gaps." Which is fine, I don't see why this is a big problem, but it is a criticism. The alternative is some unknown and probably unknowable naturalistic process. This is what I prefer to think of it as.

Outertale

Dec 26, 2016

0

#8669

Ok,ok, people, we can stop now. I just asked a question.And that question was not ",What is the anwser to life?"

The_Ghostess_Lola

Dec 26, 2016

0

#8670

regi-mental wrote:

NOTHING is supernatural

if it exists, it's natural

if it doesn't exist, it doesn't

The descendents of Alexander the Great (The Kalash People) are kinda supernatural....

Besides, Rudyard Kipling said it back in 1888 in his novella, The Man Who Would Be King.

The_Ghostess_Lola

Dec 27, 2016

0

#8671

....and btw, there's abuncha stuff that's supernatural so don't listen to regimented. Supernatural just means something above and incomprehensible by nature.

So ponderings like how time began, where did matter & energy come from, what's beyond the particle horizon (4the Big Bang jeewhizzers), how did life first form, why there's no physical infinity, stuff like that.

So for people who think that there's no intelligent design ?....well, they don't have any themselves - so don't look to them for any answers.

I'm not in a very good mood today so I'm not going be found any where near the equator.

regi-mental

Dec 27, 2016

0

#8672

electricity used to be supernatural

'shooting stars' used to be supernatural

bio-luminecence, aurora borealis, eclipses, ALL were at one time considered supernatural, BEYOND understanding. But you know what? Some brave, rational, free thinking people went out, made measurements, observations, and predictions, did the work necessary to learn......and lo and behold......UNDERSTOOD these natural phenomena! Thereby contributing to the great sum of human knowledge.

There will ALWAYS be people who are sure 'it's impossible' 'it can't be done' 'we will never understand' 'it's too hard' but thankfully, there will also always be people out there doing the work to solve the mysterious and expose the superstitions to the 'light.

The_Ghostess_Lola

Dec 27, 2016

0

#8673

Telestu wrote:

NoSecretToTheGallery wrote:

'Supernatural' is a real word and has a valid purpose in conversation.

Same for "infinity"

In fact it's a useful concept in mathematics.

But does it exist in reality? No.

Telestu's right. 'Cuz once you put a unit to a math # you wreck its value.

I mean, if you can't selfie something infinitely small, then you'll never comprehend something infinitely big, right ?

But then we always have Free Parameters. They'll give us all the confirmation bias on stuff we could ever dream up........

TheAuthority

Dec 27, 2016

0

#8674

Science wants credit for everything. We already know, believe and or theorize something for hundreds of years, all of the sudden science "discovers" this something. How did anything everget accomplished before SM...

regi-mental

Dec 27, 2016

0

#8675

Why doesn't infinity exist in reality?

TheAuthority

Dec 27, 2016

0

#8676

It does....this sentence goes on forever...

The_Ghostess_Lola

Dec 27, 2016

0

#8677

regi-mental wrote:

Why doesn't infinity exist in reality?

....it's up to you to prove it does (bobbing my foot).

The_Ghostess_Lola

Dec 27, 2016

0

#8678

chessking1976 wrote:

Science wants credit for everything.

....won't get it from me.

TheAuthority

Dec 27, 2016

0

#8679

regi-mental wrote:

Why doesn't infinity exist in reality?

We live in an infinite universe, soon (relatively) to be accepted as multiverse. What more proof do you need?

The_Ghostess_Lola

Dec 27, 2016

0

#8680

(#9356) We live in an infinite universe,

....prove it.