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The Vote Chess game against Shredder 12 has been restarted. The Alliance's turn will start in 47 hours.

Hello The Chess.com Alliance, I vote to cancel the Vote Chess match because the title is sexist. When first looking at the title I thought that "Man vs. Machine...' is not a big deal. But when analyzing what a wonderful match we just played against Natalija Pogonina the title is fit for the 18th century mentality and we live in the 21st century. This topic is particularly sensitive because when studying Bobby Fischer you also have to study the atrocious atrocities that was emitted from his mouth. So having a sexist title is entirely inappropriate and inexcusable. Thanks for taking the time to read this post. I will not participate until this match is cancelled and a 21st century title is in place on a brand new match.

If you are getting slaughtered and find a way to draw via recurring check is it ethical? I personally think it's fair because it takes a bit of strategy to acheive it and people should make sure it can't happen if they are winning. Or is it only a thing you should do in a tournament and on chess.com there should be an element of ethical fair play?

So many of our members proposed playing a game against engines (2days/move) to practice our teamwork for the next GM match and to have fun. ialbrekht and jlueke have volunteered their time and software to help out on the Engine side.I am thinking we should play the game as if it was a GM game. Have people vote unofficially on a move when it is our turn and at some time after (24hrs?), have everyone vote the consensus move. Is everyone fine with this? Or should we have a captain and have the captain decide the move to vote on? I wouldn't mind the latter, but it wouldn't work in a GM game and so we would be losing a practice opportunity with the Alliance voting system.jlueke and ialbrekht will be running the engines but we might need some help to ensure we don't time out. I am thinking of relaying our move to jlueke as soon as we decide on one, so he can get a head start on the analysis. This gives him 1 day to analyze and 2 days to make the move. If anyone else who would like to help vote and NOT play on the Alliance side, please speak to me. You should be someone very active and responsible (remember to vote).In summary:Practice with Alliance voting system or assign a captain?Anyone want to help vote and NOT play on the alliance side?

Great game, everyone! There is no doubt in my mind that the game wouldn't have gone as well as it did without your help. A personal thank you to Ivan for taking charge with starting the topics every turn. Also a thank you to dsarkar who is no longer with us on chess.com but had contributed greatly to analysis every turn. A HUGE thank you to everyone who worked hard to contribute to analysis every move. You guys worked very hard to come up with lines as well as keeping up with discussion on both the forums and in the game. Without you, we would all be lost. Last but not least, thank you to each and every one of you for supporting the Alliance and for making this a great game for the history books. Until next time, Val08 (Sora)

Somehow, I can't get excited about playing a computer - can we arrange - 1) IMCHEAP - would be interesting to play him - competition vs. his remarks (very nice) in the game. 2) ELROCH - such knowledge - such personality

For what it's worth

This isn't much differnt in terms of the scoring. There are some opening variation games that are interesting. Chessbase actually shows a 13...Nb6 between two GM's that ends 0-1. Mrva-Babula where 14. Rfe8 was played.

Looks like Qa7 will be our move. her candidate moves might be: 40. Qa4 to threaten our back rank 40. Kh2, Kg2 or Kf1 40. Bd5

38...Qb7 has won this round - and Pogonina's reply is 39.b4 99% chance. 39th move candidates are: Kf8, a5!?, d5!?, Qxe4?!, Qd7, Qe7, Qa7, ... Request: Please try to come to a consensus before it is our time to vote. We have 2 days for this move...

After our 37...Rxb6 white has to move her queen. She has only 2 squares to move the queen: 38.Qa4 and 38.Qa2. After 38.Qa4 Qc6! she has two options: 39.Qxc6 and 39.Qa2. After 39.Qxc6 Rxc6 her attack loses steam (39.Qa2 is certainly playable). So why not 38.Qa2 instead of 39.Qa2? So most probably her 38th move will be 38.Qa2 We have to plan our move keeping in mind white's possible h4, Bd5, b4, Rf5 (Bxa5?! is now replied by Qa7!). Moves to consider are: 38...Qb7. Supports our a-pawn, attacks white's b-pawn. 39.b4 is practically forced. Then we can play Kf8 to remove the Bxf7+-with-check threat.However after 40.Bd5! Qd7 (only good move supporting f-pawn as well as preventing 41.h4), then what? More interesting is white's 40.Kg2! which puts black in almost total zugzwang (only king moves available, both detrimental), e.g.: 40...Qxe4? 41.Bd5!. 38...Kf8?! is the most complicated ine requiring further analysis - does not prevent h4 (next move g5), and leads to complications favoting white - unless some promising variation comes up? 38...Qa7?! supports the a-pawn, but with no other threat (except a5, which is stopped by b5 anyway), does not prevent h4. 38...Qa7 39.h4 Rb7! looked effective, but its refutation is 38...Qa7 39.b4! Kf8 (or move queen, which foils purpose of Qa7)(39...Rb7?! 40.Qa4!) 40.h4 Rb7 41.Qd2!! 38...Qd7 is a sly one - directly prevents h4 (h4? Qxg4+), indirectly protects the a-pawn (Bxa6?! Qa7!) so worth consideration. 38...Qe7?! - appears aimless, doesn't really prevent h4 (38...Qe7 39.h4! Bxh4?? 40.Rxf7 getting our queen). 38...Rb8?! 39.h4 Rf8 saves kingside, but gives away the a-pawn without a fight:38...Rb8 39.h4 Rf8 40.g5 hxg5 41.hxg5 Bxg5 42.Qxa6 giving white a dangerous passed b-pawn plus superior position. 38...Rb7?! This move initially looked playable (Bxa6?! Ra8!)(Qxa6 Rxb2) - is refuted by 39.h4, 40.g5. Candidate moves for further analysis: Qb7, Kf8, Qd7

[after 36...Rcxb6] 37.Bxa6 d5! 38.exd5 e4! 39.Re3 Bd4! 40.cxd4 Rxb4 40.Rxb6 Rxb6 41.Qc4 Qxc4 42.Bxc4 Bxe3 43.fxe3 Rxb2 39.Rf5 Qd6! 40.Rxb6 Rxb6 40.Bb5 (Elroch's line) Be7! 39.Rxf6!? (may be best reply to 37...d5 line) 39...gxf6 (39...Rxb4 not good) 40.Rxb6 Rxb6 41.Qc4 Qxc4 42.Bxc4 Rxb2 40.Qc4 Qxc4 41.Bxc4 Rxb4 42.cxb4 Rxb4 43.b3 40.Bc4 Rxb4 41.cxb4 e3!! (42.fxe3 Qg3+) 40.Be2 e3! 41.Rxb6 Rxb6 42.Qc2 exf2+ 43.Kg2 Qb7! 40.Bf1 e3! 41.fxe3 Qg3+ draw 41.Qc4 exf2+ 42.Kg2 Qe5 (threatening f5) (42.Kxf2 Qh2+) 41.Kg2 exf2 42.Qc4 Qe5 40.Kg2 (white's best) f5 (41.gxf5 Rxb4 42.cxb4 Kh7! 43.Be2 Rg8+) 37.Rxb6 Rxb6 38.Qa2 38...Qb7 39.b4 Kf8 40.Bd5 Qd7 38...Kf8?! 39.h4 Rxb2 (forced) 40.Qxb2 Qxc4 38...a5? 39.Qxa5 38.Qa4 Qc6! 38.Bxf7+? Kf8! (Kh7/Kh8 loses) (39.Q-move Qxf7) 37.h4 37...Rxb4 38.cxb4 Rf8! 39.Bxa6 Bxh4 40.b5 Qd7 41.b6 Qxg4+ 42.Kf1 Bd8 43.b7 Bc7 39.h5 Qc6 37...a5?! 38.Rxb6 Rxb6 39.Qa2 not good 37.Bd5 Rxb4 38.cxb4 38...a5?! 39.b5! Qa7 40.Qc4 Qd7 41.Rb3 Bd8 42.Kg2 Qc7 41.Kg2! (41...Qxb4 42.Bxf7+ not good) 38...Kh7!? 39.Bxf7 Qb7! 40.Be6! 40...Qxb4? 41.Bf5+ Kh8 42.Qf7 40...Kh8 41.Bf5 a5!? 42.Qe6 axb4 43.h4 Qe7 43.Rd3 Qe7 44.Rxd6 Qxe6 45.Rxe6 38...Kh8?! 39.Bxf7 Qb7 40.Bg6! Qxb4 41.Qf7! 38...Rf8?! 39.Rc3 Qa7 40.Rc6 38...Qa7 39.h4 Rf8 38...Qd7 (prevents h4) 37.other?! (just for records) Rxb4 38.cxb4 Qb7 37.Bd5 line is not yet complete, and might require further tweaking

After 33.Qb3 Rb8 34.Bc4 (most likely) We have to come up with a satisfactory move. A safe candidate appears to be 34...h6 This is my posting in the last move 33 thread (showing riskiness of 34...b5?!): This is the posting of Estragon showing yet another hazard of 34...b5?!: And Savyma's reply/modification to Estragon's line: 34...h6 appears better, but we have to come up with a follow-up We have to come up with a good continuation after 35.g4, 35.Bd5, 35.Rg3

Unless anyone disagrees with 27. ... Rc6, we should continue the discussion here, starting with a summary of the analysis from the last move. White options include: 28. Bc4 and 28. Rb4 There is a lot of good analysis of both to summarise and refine, in the move 27 conditional move thread.

Pogonina's Strategy (please see comment#18 below for diagram) She wants to play her bishop Bd5 to attack our b-pawn Rd5 (1st block our queen's line of sight of the e-pawn & supporting e-pawn, making it safe to move B) Ra4 => Rb4 (target our b-pawn) Qb3 (to support her B at c4) Bc4 (target d5) Rd1 (to make room for the bishop) Bd5 (attacking the b-pawn - our B cannot defend) post her rook at Rb6 bring her other rook to Rb4 via a1, a4 win the b-pawn

This approach allows the Alliance members across the globe to vote early, after studying the analyses. That way we minimize the impact of the time difference globally. It is important we we get our recommendation to the general voting forum early to have a meaningful impact on the votes and how the game proceeds. Note that in-game voting is now starting around 10:00GMT.

Okay, so there have been many suggestions/comments/concerns since our first run. I will try to address as many of them as possible: 1) Accelerating Voting time. -Every turn, we try to vote sooner and sooner but somehow it just messes up. We want a good head start, but we also want ample time for people around the world to be able to vote. I am thinking we should start voting at 2 hours into the game (to finish up any analyses once we find out Natalia's move) and allow voting time for four hours. Is this okay? 2) We need a coordinator. -nola2172 and Elroch have taken over the last two moves in my absence but we are running things a bit differently every time. I think we need official coordinators, preferably one who is available during the first 6 hours of the Pogonina game. I nominate nola2172 and Elroch for this position if they accept. We can go over a set guideline so that there will be no confusion as to what to do during voting. 3) Messaging the IMs for a second option before voting-Sometimes, what we see and what the IMs see are completely different. As such, I think we should assign someone who closely follows the discussion to copy the best lines in analysis and message the IMs, asking for their opinion. This way, they will be able to evaluate the same lines we are evaluating. We should ask them asap so that they reply to us before we vote, else it will be too late. 4) Final Variations- Is this topic even helpful? Should we assign someone to keep track of the best lines presented and post it in this topic? Is there anyone willing to do this? I think this is the bulk of the suggestions/concerns this turn. If there is anything else anyone would like to add, please post it below. Thanks to everyone for their continuing support.

I propose that on future moves we have a conditional vote before Pogonina has moved, on any moves where our strongest players think a small number of options are highly probable, and that this vote be presented to the game as soon as Pogonina has moved. On this occasion we were pretty sure about her move, and could have done the analysis much earlier. Yet again, I already expect our work on move 17 to have no effect on the move played, with so many people not subscribing to the concept of making the best move as a team, and our move going through with a >200 vote lead to overcome.

Self explanatory. Please vote here for the move you favour, quickly. I suggest we post our recommendation in the game within the hour, as already over 300 votes have been cast dominated by the "Nb6 attacks the queen, so that's the move" brigade. But that does not mean it is not the best move - would be nice if it was, as it is going to be difficult to get anything else played.

Since 16. Bxd5 is going to win the votes, despite the huge influence our group made, I thought we should get started in discussing the next move. Remember to try to use diagrams as often as possible. For those who forgot, here is a link to the analysis board in the Pogonina game that you can use to play out the moves. Right-click the link and click "Open in new tab" or "Open in new window". Pogonina Game Analysis Board I think the majority of us already think 17...Nb6 is the best move for black. However, 17...Qc6 is also an alternative to consider (take a look at D3V1L's line on Post #56 on this page). B97 also suggested 17...Qa5 which looks interesting but seems to lead to an easy game for white after the queen trade, due to our backward pawn being an easy target. Remember, if we are to have any chance of promoting something other than 17... Nb6, we need to do so quickly. I recommend our analyzers to focus on exploring the alternatives, since we already have a good number of lines for Nb6.