Forum

Hopefully this won't confuse people. This topic is for complete analysis only. Any minor change/comments/suggestions should be posted in the other topic. We want diagrams for all voters to quickly look at here in this topic. Okay, so I took a quick look through everything and it seems we are still having some doubts over where each move leads. The main question for the queen moves is whether white will trade queens or not. The trading variations look slightly better for white in my opinion and I also think trading queens is in white's favor since we have a permanent backward pawn that is not going anywhere anytime soon. Anyways, just to be safe, I will post all the lines I considered best for each move by our members. The original posters are recommended to repost these diagrams if they want. If there are any improvements/updates, please repost the diagrams or tell me in the other topic and I will update them here. 17...Qc6 18. Qxc6 - Elroch's variation 17...Qc6 18. Qxc6 - casmith_789's variation 17... Qc6 18. Qd3/Qd1 - urvang's variation 17... Nb6 18. Qb3 - dsarkar's variation + D3V1L's d5 sac (a bit dubious atm) Requesting our players who have been following the analysis to double check to see if we missed any major ideas here.

As we have seen this turn (move 16), if we don't have something fast, we may not be of much use in the voting. I would propose that after our turn is complete, we need to rather quickly begin to assess what to do next based on white's most likely moves. For instance, if Bxd5 is selected for our 16th move (which is likely, even though we endorsed Qd8), then white only has two responses, exd5 and Qxd5. I propose the following general guidelines for voting so that we have some chance of actually influencing the discussion: 1. In situations in which white's next move is fairly obvious, we need to start our own voting within the last 4-8 hours of white's turn. When it is our turn, we should have an immediate recommendation (within the first hour). If this is done, we are quite likely to sway the discussion in our favor. 2. In situation in which white's next move is less obvious, we should still have some ideas in the works that we develop during white's turn. Depeding on what move white selects, there are two ways this can go: A. If votes are evenly divided among a bunch of different things (please monitor this everyone, there are plenty of forum posts of votes), we can take our time a bit more, with our voting between 12-16 hours into our turn and final voting with 8 hours of time remaining. We have enough votes to propel one thing to the top if the voting is close. B. If votes are leaning pretty firmly in one or two directions (and we think at least one of them is inferior), then we need to accelerate voting to between 6-10 hours into our turn with voting to conclude at the 10 hour mark. I know this is long and somewhat complicated, but we are going to need to be much faster than we were this time in order to have a real effect on the game with the voting moving so quickly.

We have only 4 candidate moves: 15...Nxd5 confirmed 16.Nxd5 16...Bxd5 16...Qd8 16.exd5 16...Bf5 16...Bd7 Should we create the 4 threads right now?

I apologize for accelerating this so much this time, but if we don't vote very soon, there really will be no point since Bxd5 is going to win in the actual game. It is currently 15:24 GMT. I would propose that we finalize our voting by 18:00 GMT or else we will have no impact whatsoever on this move. Also, whatever move we decide, ALL of us must give vocal support (or if you just can't do that because you don't like the decision, then silence) to that move in the main game forum.

Natalia Pogonina (http://www.chess.com/votechess/game.html?id=14051) will probably play 16.Nxd5 since exd5 will guard black's main weak spot d6 and free black's king side. It also leaves Nc3 no good choices. My guess is that there will be a strong tendency among many voters to go for 16. ... Bxd5. I believe that is not the best move. The most natural is 17.Qxd5 and white will, even if the Queens are exchanged, have a lasting grip on the centre and the weak pawn d6. So, the black queen must move and the dark squared bishop needs a guard. The only move to do that is Qd8. 16. ...Qd8 is therefore my suggestion. Now, one can go further and analyze longer. But for move 16. ... I believe it is not necessary.

Feel free to post here whenever you want, but try to post only ONCE for each move (so one post for 15...Nxd5, one post for 15...Qd8). Please use the EDIT button to update your post and the notes to inform us that you did. You may comment only on your own variations. Comments/questions on another member's variations go in the other topic for the respective move.

DO NOT VOTE IN THE POGONINA GAME! We are casting an unofficial vote here for the "Alliance Move". The move that gets chosen should be voted for by ALL members, regardless of which move you supported for in this topic. All members have a chance to contribute to the discussion and persuade others to vote their move so do not be angry if your move was not favored by the majority. You are free to edit your votes here up until 10 hours in the Pogonina game. At that time, we will lock this topic, tally the votes, and announce the official "Alliance move". Please keep up with the discussions so you can factor in new ideas/refutations before you cast your official votes. I recommend all members to begin voting at 12 hours. When you vote, please state the move you vote for and a good reason for why you supported it. Here is an example from Valentin: _valentin_ wrote: To me, the Exchange variation -- with two rounds of exchanges on d5 -- is most appealing in terms of the prospects it leaves us with at the end of the suggested variations (in the main forum for move 15). I'd consider improving the line even further with 17...Qc6 (instead of 17...Nb6, which would be akin to saying "Nc4 was a poor move", which I don't believe is true). As I'll be going to bed soon, when you tally the votes here in the Alliance, which I hope will happen in the next 8 hours or less, please consider my vote for 15...N:d5. The alternatives as presented in the main forum for move 15 seem way too passive and defeatist -- and unnecessarily so -- in my opinion. Your reasons for supporting the move need not be this long, but it should show that you seriously considered other alternatives and looked at the all the variations we've presented.

Please try keep all discussion about 15...Nxd5 in this topic.Treat this as if it was a normal game. Post diagrams, comments, questions, etc. We will be tweaking analysis for the first 12 hours. Feel free to bounce ideas off non-members in the actual game discussions if you like, but be sure to update your analysis here as well. When you feel you have perfected you variations, post them in the Move 15 - Final Variations topic. We will start our unofficial voting for the "Alliance move" at 12 hours so be sure to post your final variations by then. Again, DO NOT VOTE in the actual game until we get our "alliance move".

Okay, we should probably try to narrow down to as few candidates as possible (unless they pop up later as a stronger move). In fact, if you find a move is strong in your analysis and someone else agrees it should be looked at, create a new topic titled 15...Rb1 or whatever the move is. In it, you or any other member can repost the discussion and analysis for that move in that topic. Other than that, if the move doesn't look too strong, post the analysis here. This topic is only for mediocre discussion to determine candidates. It should die down quickly once it's our turn and real analysis should be in the appropriate topic. Also, please remember to post a plan/explanation of your variation whenever possible.

Please try keep all discussion about 15...Qd8 in this topic.Treat this as if it was a normal game. Post diagrams, comments, questions, etc. We will be tweaking analysis for the first 12 hours. Feel free to bounce ideas off non-members in the actual game discussions if you like, but be sure to update your analysis here as well. When you feel you have perfected you variations, post them in the Move 15 - Final Variations topic. We will start our unofficial voting for the "Alliance move" at 12 hours so be sure to post your final variations by then. Again, DO NOT VOTE in the actual game until we get our "alliance move".