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Jimmykay

I agree with Shivsky. Chess should be learned backwards. The FIRST thing to teach someone whould be how to checkmate with a queen.

SilentKnighte5

If someone said "hey I've done a couple books on tactics and I don't drop my knight on move 10 anymore, what should I do now", then i'd recommend an endgame book.  The Pandolfini book is a good one, despite its errors.  It covers basically everything that Silman does, but it's in workbook form.

HOWEVER, any good tactics book will cover/teach endgame basics as well IMO.  Bain's tactics book contains some basic endgame themes in it, although it's  mostly a middle game tactics workbook.  Ivaschenko's tactics books cover technical endgames as well.  

SilentKnighte5
Jimmykay wrote:

I agree with Shivsky. Chess should be learned backwards. The FIRST thing to teach someone whould be how to checkmate with a queen.

This is not what anyone is talking about.

SilentKnighte5

Telling someone "read the first section of Silman's endgame book so you know how to perform simple mates when up tons of material" isn't in the same league as "go buy Nunn's endgame book and study it".  The latter recommendation is absurd.

Jimmykay
SilentKnighte5 wrote:
Jimmykay wrote:

I agree with Shivsky. Chess should be learned backwards. The FIRST thing to teach someone whould be how to checkmate with a queen.

This is not what anyone is talking about.

What are you the forum police? lol. Read shivsky's post.

SilentKnighte5
Jimmykay wrote:
SilentKnighte5 wrote:
Jimmykay wrote:

I agree with Shivsky. Chess should be learned backwards. The FIRST thing to teach someone whould be how to checkmate with a queen.

This is not what anyone is talking about.

What are you the forum police? lol. Read shivsky's post.

If you're going to argue against someone, you should know what their argument is.

Jimmykay

To the OP:

Make sure you study the basic mates.If you do not know how to mate with just a queen, and other basic mates, you are wasting your time learning anything else yet.

I am not going to get involved with this thread other than to let you know that.

I don't like wasting my time arguing with angry old assholes like SilentKnight who goet their rocks off by being forum bullies. How sad...another piece of advice. don't turn out like that loser.

TheGrobe
SilentKnighte5 wrote:
Jimmykay wrote:

I agree with Shivsky. Chess should be learned backwards. The FIRST thing to teach someone whould be how to checkmate with a queen.

This is not what anyone is talking about.

Wait, what are we discussing then?

OldChessDog

You can't get better than Dvoretsky's Endgame Manual. But be prepared to work hard.

http://www.chess.com/blog/OldChessDog/mornings-with-dvoretsky

SilentKnighte5
TheGrobe wrote:
SilentKnighte5 wrote:
Jimmykay wrote:

I agree with Shivsky. Chess should be learned backwards. The FIRST thing to teach someone whould be how to checkmate with a queen.

This is not what anyone is talking about.

Wait, what are we discussing then?

Whether or not someone who doesn't know the basic tactical motifs should be studying Nunn's endgame book as a start to getting better.  It was right there in the post I quoted saying it was terrible advice.

TheGrobe
SilentKnighte5 wrote:

Telling someone "read the first section of Silman's endgame book so you know how to perform simple mates when up tons of material" isn't in the same league as "go buy Nunn's endgame book and study it".  The latter recommendation is absurd.

Go back and read the original post, and the post you took issue with -- he recommended studying basic endgame technique.  Nunn's book was cited because it was on sale for Kindle at the time, something the OP specifically asked about.

If you're going to argue against someone, you should know what their argument is.

SilentKnighte5
TheGrobe wrote:
SilentKnighte5 wrote:

Telling someone "read the first section of Silman's endgame book so you know how to perform simple mates when up tons of material" isn't in the same league as "go buy Nunn's endgame book and study it".  The latter recommendation is absurd.

Go back and read the original post, and the post you took issue with -- he recommended studying basic endgame technique.  Nunn's book was cited because it was on sale for Kindle at the time, something the OP specifically asked about.

If you're going to argue against someone, you should know what their argument is.

Learning basic endgame technique is worthless if you're down a rook.

SilentKnighte5
plexinico wrote:
BTP_Excession wrote:

The fastest way to improve results is probably to learn basic endgame technique.

John's Nunn's 'Understanding Chess Endgames' is on special offer in Kindle Store and is very good indeed for the money. It breaks into 100 different building topics (although many are linked) , each illustrated by 3 or 4 examples, so you can work thru it at your own leisure.

I have this book by Nunn and do NOT recommended for a complete beginner.  It is a complicated book once you get over the basic stuff which there isn't too much.  I would start reading that book once you get to 1400-1500 ELO rating.  But that is just an opinion

I recommend a book by Susan Polgar: Chess tactics for champions

Great book!

This guy knows what he's talking about.

SilentKnighte5
tmodel66 wrote:

I agree that Nunn's endgame book wouldn't be the first thing to study as a beginner because you likely will lose (whether you are checkmated or not) before you even get to the endgame if you haven't studied tactics.

Hey look, the same advice.  Another gold star.

TheGrobe
SilentKnighte5 wrote:
TheGrobe wrote:
SilentKnighte5 wrote:

Telling someone "read the first section of Silman's endgame book so you know how to perform simple mates when up tons of material" isn't in the same league as "go buy Nunn's endgame book and study it".  The latter recommendation is absurd.

Go back and read the original post, and the post you took issue with -- he recommended studying basic endgame technique.  Nunn's book was cited because it was on sale for Kindle at the time, something the OP specifically asked about.

If you're going to argue against someone, you should know what their argument is.

Learning basic endgame technique is worthless if you're down a rook.

I thought your issue was specifically with the book that was recommended.

SilentKnighte5 wrote:

Telling someone "read the first section of Silman's endgame book so you know how to perform simple mates when up tons of material" isn't in the same league as "go buy Nunn's endgame book and study it".  The latter recommendation is absurd.

So now we are disputing whether studying basic endgames has any value?

SilentKnighte5 wrote:
Jimmykay wrote:

I agree with Shivsky. Chess should be learned backwards. The FIRST thing to teach someone whould be how to checkmate with a queen.

This is not what anyone is talking about.

It would be easier to know what your argument was if you held one consistently.

SilentKnighte5
jambyvedar wrote:
tmodel66 wrote:

I agree that Nunn's endgame book wouldn't be the first thing to study as a beginner because you likely will lose (whether you are checkmated or not) before you even get to the endgame if you haven't studied tactics.

 Nunn's book is excellent. But I suggest Winning Chess Endgame by Seirawan or Pandolfinni's Endgame course as first endgame book for beginners. Nunn's book might be too daunting for them.

Someone else who thinks Nunn's endgame book is dumb advice.  Silver star.

SilentKnighte5

"You have to start people out with tactics and the basic mates or else they will get shredded instantly" - Jeremy Silman

You don't see him recommending opposition or square of the pawn or any other "basic endgames".  Tactics and basic mates (which is tactics anyway).

  1. Game
  2. Set
  3. Match
windmill64
SilentKnighte5 wrote:

"You have to start people out with tactics and the basic mates or else they will get shredded instantly" - Jeremy Silman

You don't see him recommending opposition or square of the pawn or any other "basic endgames".  Tactics and basic mates (which is tactics anyway).

Game Set Match

Appeals to authority aren't very convincing when authorities aren't in complete agreement. For example Capablanca states:

"In order to improve your game, you must study the endgame before everything else. For whereas the endings can be studied and mastered by themselves, the middle game and opening must be studied in relation to the end game."

Beginning from the simple {fewer pieces} and working into the more complex {more pieces} isn't a radical theory in learning something. Learning tactics from a couple pieces on the board, basic mates and pawn endings, along with knowing how pieces interact with each other can set a great foundation for learning other chess aspects later on, as well as save dozens of should be losses into draws and wins too. The more endgame material you master, the better you'll learn the other phases of the game and probably more easily. Any beginner in my opinion would do well to learn tactics/mates/pawn endings/ rook and pawn endings/ and other endgame material as the primary focus before working on the other (and many!) chess material available. It'll serve you best in the long run.


SilentKnighte5
  1. GAME
  2. SET
  3. MATCH
Jimmykay
SilentKnighte5 wrote:

"You have to start people out with tactics and the basic mates or else they will get shredded instantly" - Jeremy Silman

"Make sure you study the basic mates.If you do not know how to mate with just a queen, and other basic mates, you are wasting your time learning anything else yet."

=Jimmykay

And you argued with me. "Game set and match" is easy when you choose both sides of the argument.