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About space advantages

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tygxc
tygxc
Mar 12, 2022
0
#21

Space is overrated. The main reason why those positions are much better for white is not space, but rather control over the center. Having a cramped position is OK, though a cramped position is more difficult to play: there is no room for error. A position where the opponent controls the center however is lost unless you have a form of compensation.

llama51
llama51
Closed: Inactive
Mar 12, 2022
0
#22
blank0923 wrote:
thelondonsystrn wrote:

Does white have a space advantage, or is the space advantage the same for both sides?

Is there anything black can do to increase his space advantage or to reduce whites space advantage?

The term "space" is typically defined as how much control one has over the position. In this case, we can see that White has a huge space advantage, with literally all of his pawns and pieces controlling the center. Black, on the other hand, has no control at all over the center.

"Control over the position" eeeh...

The term space is used two different ways:

1) Just counting the number of squares each side influences. This is the classical space when authors talked about space, force, and time.

2) Counting the empty squares behind your pawns that can be used to post pieces or maneuver through. This kind of space is quantifying maneuverability.

llama51
llama51
Closed: Inactive
Mar 12, 2022
0
#23
thelondonsystrn wrote:
blank0923 wrote:

You're making this way more complicated than it should be. The Black position is bad because of the reasons already given. Period.

If I play as white against this position how much will I have to open up the position before I launch a combination? Is it just a case of constantly keeping the position more and more open until I find a combination?

It takes a fair amount of technique to use a space advantage.

Part of it is being patient while keeping your pieces active. Part of it is tactical imagination, noticing potential combinations, and striking quickly when there's an opportunity. Part of it is trying to find out how the opponent can improve their position, and then not letting them.

The classic technique is you shift threats from one side of the board to the other. With more maneuverability, you can build threats faster than the defense can shift to meet them.

thelondonsystrn
thelondonsystrn
Closed: Inactive
Mar 12, 2022
0
#24
alphaous wrote:
Morfizera wrote:

Dude you already asked that exact same question in a different thread and people from all different ratings, countries, playing style, even masters and computers have told you in several many different ways all the reasons why it is bad for black. https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/has-black-lost-the-game

I don't know why you're so obsessed with that crap position for black, but posting it multiple times is not going to change the fact that it's garbage. Can black win? Sure, if white plays like trash and hangs their queen or something like that. At lower and intermediate levels blunders happen left and right, but statically speaking, all else equal, white will win many more games from that position. You're not going to find a single person who has at least a bit of chess knowledge saying that this is good for black. Black has absolutely no advantages.

 

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

But that's because Einstein was too polite to use the word stupidity. No offense...,

This is his fourth or fifth thread on this line, actually. If he wanted to improve, he would have abandoned this opening the first time instead of making redundant threads. He's clearly wasting everyone's time by being stubborn in his attempts to apparently get a second opinion. I agree with what you said, this is ridiculous.

No one is putting a gun to your head, therefore no one is wasting your time, you are taking this a step above everybody else and whining, shut up.

alphaous
alphaous
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Mar 12, 2022
0
#25
thelondonsystrn wrote:
alphaous wrote:
Morfizera wrote:

Dude you already asked that exact same question in a different thread and people from all different ratings, countries, playing style, even masters and computers have told you in several many different ways all the reasons why it is bad for black. https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/has-black-lost-the-game

I don't know why you're so obsessed with that crap position for black, but posting it multiple times is not going to change the fact that it's garbage. Can black win? Sure, if white plays like trash and hangs their queen or something like that. At lower and intermediate levels blunders happen left and right, but statically speaking, all else equal, white will win many more games from that position. You're not going to find a single person who has at least a bit of chess knowledge saying that this is good for black. Black has absolutely no advantages.

 

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

But that's because Einstein was too polite to use the word stupidity. No offense...,

This is his fourth or fifth thread on this line, actually. If he wanted to improve, he would have abandoned this opening the first time instead of making redundant threads. He's clearly wasting everyone's time by being stubborn in his attempts to apparently get a second opinion. I agree with what you said, this is ridiculous.

No one is putting a gun to your head, therefore no one is wasting your time, you are taking this a step above everybody else and whining, shut up.

I'll leave. I was just letting the people who were trying to help thinking that you were trying to learn that you are not.

FanofAkobian
FanofAkobian
Mar 12, 2022
0
#26

The position looks like something from horror show in early 19th century when black didn't have any access to chess material while White had modern knowledge happy.png 

thelondonsystrn
thelondonsystrn
Closed: Inactive
Mar 12, 2022
0
#27
alphaous wrote:
thelondonsystrn wrote:
alphaous wrote:
Morfizera wrote:

Dude you already asked that exact same question in a different thread and people from all different ratings, countries, playing style, even masters and computers have told you in several many different ways all the reasons why it is bad for black. https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/has-black-lost-the-game

I don't know why you're so obsessed with that crap position for black, but posting it multiple times is not going to change the fact that it's garbage. Can black win? Sure, if white plays like trash and hangs their queen or something like that. At lower and intermediate levels blunders happen left and right, but statically speaking, all else equal, white will win many more games from that position. You're not going to find a single person who has at least a bit of chess knowledge saying that this is good for black. Black has absolutely no advantages.

 

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

But that's because Einstein was too polite to use the word stupidity. No offense...,

This is his fourth or fifth thread on this line, actually. If he wanted to improve, he would have abandoned this opening the first time instead of making redundant threads. He's clearly wasting everyone's time by being stubborn in his attempts to apparently get a second opinion. I agree with what you said, this is ridiculous.

No one is putting a gun to your head, therefore no one is wasting your time, you are taking this a step above everybody else and whining, shut up.

I'll leave. I was just letting the people who were trying to help thinking that you were trying to learn that you are not.

I'm not being stubborn, I agree with everyone's advice, I just want to be thorough.

blueemu
blueemu
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Mar 12, 2022
0
#28

White is ahead in space 14 to 6. That's a massive advantage.

Trading pieces usually helps the side that is behind in space, since three pieces rattling around inside a cramped position are much less constricted than six pieces stuffed into the same cramped position.

Read this thread:

GM Larry Evans' method of static analysis - Chess Forums - Chess.com

thelondonsystrn
thelondonsystrn
Closed: Inactive
Mar 12, 2022
0
#29
blueemu wrote:

White is ahead in space 14 to 6. That's a massive advantage.

Trading pieces usually helps the side that is behind in space, since three pieces rattling around inside a cramped position are much less constricted than six pieces stuffed into the same cramped position.

Read this thread:

GM Larry Evans' method of static analysis - Chess Forums - Chess.com

Trading pieces is just as helpful for the side that is ahead in space as it is for the side that is behind in space.

blueemu
blueemu
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Mar 12, 2022
0
#30
thelondonsystrn wrote:
blueemu wrote:

White is ahead in space 14 to 6. That's a massive advantage.

Trading pieces usually helps the side that is behind in space, since three pieces rattling around inside a cramped position are much less constricted than six pieces stuffed into the same cramped position.

Read this thread:

GM Larry Evans' method of static analysis - Chess Forums - Chess.com

Trading pieces is just as helpful for the side that is ahead in space as it is for the side that is behind in space.

No, it isn't. You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Why is an advantage in space CALLED an advantage? How do you exploit it to win?

thelondonsystrn
thelondonsystrn
Closed: Inactive
Mar 12, 2022
0
#31
blueemu wrote:
thelondonsystrn wrote:
blueemu wrote:

White is ahead in space 14 to 6. That's a massive advantage.

Trading pieces usually helps the side that is behind in space, since three pieces rattling around inside a cramped position are much less constricted than six pieces stuffed into the same cramped position.

Read this thread:

GM Larry Evans' method of static analysis - Chess Forums - Chess.com

Trading pieces is just as helpful for the side that is ahead in space as it is for the side that is behind in space.

No, it isn't. You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Why is an advantage in space CALLED an advantage? How do you exploit it to win?

The side with the space advantage also gains space by trading pieces.

Morfizera
Morfizera
Mar 12, 2022
0
#32

@blueemu @alphaous don't waste your time it also took me a minute to realize it's just a sad frustrated lonely troll... he has half a dozen identical posts.. kind of pathetic actually

blueemu
blueemu
Show your flair!
Mar 12, 2022
0
#33
thelondonsystrn wrote:
blueemu wrote:
thelondonsystrn wrote:
blueemu wrote:

White is ahead in space 14 to 6. That's a massive advantage.

Trading pieces usually helps the side that is behind in space, since three pieces rattling around inside a cramped position are much less constricted than six pieces stuffed into the same cramped position.

Read this thread:

GM Larry Evans' method of static analysis - Chess Forums - Chess.com

Trading pieces is just as helpful for the side that is ahead in space as it is for the side that is behind in space.

No, it isn't. You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Why is an advantage in space CALLED an advantage? How do you exploit it to win?

The side with the space advantage also gains space by trading pieces.

You don't seem to grasp what a space advantage is FOR.

Assume that you have an advantage in space. How do you translate that into a win?

Try answering the question for once.

thelondonsystrn
thelondonsystrn
Closed: Inactive
Mar 12, 2022
0
#34
Morfizera wrote:

@blueemu @alphaous don't waste your time it also took me a minute to realize it's just a sad frustrated lonely troll... he has half a dozen identical posts.. kind of pathetic actually

Calling me lonely without proof? I don't need company in the same way as other people do, nice try.

Insulting me and calling me lonely? Go away and keep away from my threads!

thelondonsystrn
thelondonsystrn
Closed: Inactive
Mar 12, 2022
0
#35
blueemu wrote:
thelondonsystrn wrote:
blueemu wrote:
thelondonsystrn wrote:
blueemu wrote:

White is ahead in space 14 to 6. That's a massive advantage.

Trading pieces usually helps the side that is behind in space, since three pieces rattling around inside a cramped position are much less constricted than six pieces stuffed into the same cramped position.

Read this thread:

GM Larry Evans' method of static analysis - Chess Forums - Chess.com

Trading pieces is just as helpful for the side that is ahead in space as it is for the side that is behind in space.

No, it isn't. You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about.

Why is an advantage in space CALLED an advantage? How do you exploit it to win?

The side with the space advantage also gains space by trading pieces.

You don't seem to grasp what a space advantage is FOR.

Assume that you have an advantage in space. How do you translate that into a win?

Try answering the question for once.

An advantage in space is an advantage in activity and center control.

Morfizera
Morfizera
Mar 12, 2022
0
#36
thelondonsystrn wrote:
Morfizera wrote:

@blueemu @alphaous don't waste your time it also took me a minute to realize it's just a sad frustrated lonely troll... he has half a dozen identical posts.. kind of pathetic actually

Calling me lonely without proof? I don't need company in the same way as other people do, nice try.

Insulting me and calling me lonely? Go away and keep away from my threads!

 

So you don't deny the sad frustrated troll, eh? Thought so... Well... I only called you lonely because every troll is a sad frustrated lonely pathetic loser, among many other pitiful adjectives, and you fit the profile .

Not insulting, just describing. And I try to keep away from your threads, but you post the exact same fucking shit so many times in so many places that it's hard to avoid them.

Morfizera
Morfizera
Mar 12, 2022
0
#37

 

For those who stay trying to help thinking he is a beginner who is actually trying to learn - good luck. Ignoring or helping him ain't gonna stopping the troll from starting another identical thread anyways...

tygxc
tygxc
Mar 13, 2022
0
#38

#32
"The side with the space advantage also gains space by trading pieces."
Space advantage is not a real advantage, but a central advantage is real.
In general if white controls the center, then black often wants to trade pieces to relieve pressure and consolidate.
However, if white controls the center and is using that advantage to attack the black king, then white may benefit from trading pieces to eliminate a defender.

llama51
llama51
Closed: Inactive
Mar 13, 2022
0
#39
tygxc wrote:

Space advantage is not a real advantage, but a central advantage is real.

You say such weird things.

Steven-ODonoghue
Steven-ODonoghue
Closed: Inactive
Mar 13, 2022
0
#40
Morfizera wrote:

 

For those who stay trying to help thinking he is a beginner who is actually trying to learn - good luck. Ignoring or helping him ain't gonna stopping the troll from starting another identical thread anyways...

If he really is a troll then at least he's doing it better than most.. some of the crap he says is so stupid it becomes entertaining. The absurdity of his posts in this topic probably made me laugh more than any other post i've read on this forum.