I have had a repetition automatically declared two times recently without me having to ask for a draw. I just happened in this game (https://www.chess.com/live/game/3797030410). I did ask for a draw some moves ago with 2x repetition, so I'm not sure if having asked for a draw earlier in the game is a bug.
3-fold repetition, draw offer still required?
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digispin wrote:
I play with no increment so when a reputation occurs, asking for a draw can be deadly time-wise. Has Chess.com implemented an auto repetition draw? If not why?
Both FIDE and USCF have rules on draw by repetition.
The FIDE 3x position repetition is the most commonly referenced one. It is not automatic in OTB play and must be claimed by a player. That is why it is not automatic on this site and will never be.
digispin wrote:
I have had a repetition automatically declared two times recently without me having to ask for a draw.
No. Your opponent would have claimed the draw
Jun 20, 2019
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#5
Lagomorph wrote:
digispin wrote:
I have had a repetition automatically declared two times recently without me having to ask for a draw.
No. Your opponent would have claimed the draw
Really I have high confidence the opponent did nothing. There was no draw request in the message window and instantly after the move was made the repetition/draw notification came up.
PS: I understand the rules. That's why I was surprised to see the repetition happen instantly without doing anything. I was delighted because I thought they implemented what I wanted.
Jun 20, 2019
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#6
If there is three fold repetition and either player clicks the button to request a draw, it is instantly a draw. The other player does not have to accept.
digispin wrote:
Really I have high confidence the opponent did nothing. There was no draw request in the message window
You wont see a draw request. If 3x rep conditions are correct and your opponent clicks the draw button the game is over.
Jun 20, 2019
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#8
Lagomorph wrote:
digispin wrote:
Really I have high confidence the opponent did nothing. There was no draw request in the message window
You wont see a draw request. If 3x rep conditions are correct and your opponent clicks the draw button the game is over.
Well you're supposed to make your draw request first, then make the 3rd repetition move, otherwise the opponent could move before you trace your mouse and click draw. Also that is how it is done over the board (say draw and make the move).
All that said, I could have encountered the automatic 5x repetition as the above poster mentioned.
digispin wrote:
Well you're supposed to make your draw request first, then make the 3rd repetition move, otherwise the opponent could move before you trace your mouse and click draw. Also that is how it is done over the board (say draw and make the move).
All that said, I could have encountered the automatic 5x repetition as the above poster mentioned.
It does not work that way on this site. If you press the draw button after only two repetitions you are simply offering a draw to the opponent which he can accept or reject.
I have no idea if 5x rep is implemented on this site. If it is, you didn't find it in your game linked to above. The game was drawn on the third repetition.
Jun 21, 2019
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#10
Lagomorph wrote:
...
I have no idea if 5x rep is implemented on this site. If it is, you didn't find it in your game linked to above. The game was drawn on the third repetition.
I'm pretty sure it is. @erik mentions it in the following article from 2017.
https://www.chess.com/article/interesting-chess-data-time-controls-and-game-results
Jun 21, 2019
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#11
Lagomorph wrote:
It does not work that way on this site. If you press the draw button after only two repetitions you are simply offering a draw to the opponent which he can accept or reject.
In the referenced game (https://www.chess.com/live/game/3797030410), I made the last move as White. I never asked for draw nor was asked myself, that is why I think it was system generated. The repetition was not sequential (it took 9 half-moves, rather than the typical 7) so I didn't even realize it. Black had -5.30 eval (4 passed pawns) with over 3 minutes and I had 11 seconds, it makes no sense that black would request a draw.
Separately, when you're about to make a move that will result in the 3rd repetition, if you click draw and make that move, the opponent doesn't have to accept or deny, the system will recognize the draw. I strongly believe that because when I did it in previous occasions, it happens instantaneously and it seems like there is no time for the opponent to accept the draw. Also, every time I've done that, a draw was generated.
Jun 21, 2019
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#12
The site does not automatically claim triple-repitition. There are plenty of topics where people think it should and ask why a game wasn't a draw.
Your opponent claimed the draw and the system ended the game. Black claimed on their move, the only time they could have, and without moving. Had black moved, it would not have been a triple repetition at that point.
digispin wrote:
Lagomorph wrote:
It does not work that way on this site. If you press the draw button after only two repetitions you are simply offering a draw to the opponent which he can accept or reject.
In the referenced game (https://www.chess.com/live/game/3797030410), I made the last move as White. I never asked for draw nor was asked myself, that is why I think it was system generated. The repetition was not sequential (it took 9 half-moves, rather than the typical 7) so I didn't even realize it. Black had -5.30 eval (4 passed pawns) with over 3 minutes and I had 11 seconds, it makes no sense that black would request a draw.
Separately, when you're about to make a move that will result in the 3rd repetition, if you click draw and make that move, the opponent doesn't have to accept or deny, the system will recognize the draw. I strongly believe that because when I did it in previous occasions, it happens instantaneously and it seems like there is no time for the opponent to accept the draw. Also, every time I've done that, a draw was generated.
You have asked for clarification about these points and I have given you an answer. You obviously don't take my word for it but now that a moderator has confirmed things perhaps this thread can die.
Jun 21, 2019
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#14
Lagomorph wrote:
You have asked for clarification about these points and I have given you an answer. You obviously don't take my word for it but now that a moderator has confirmed things perhaps this thread can die.
Well Lagomorph, I'm going to toot my own horn loudly and proudly because you are dead wrong and so is the moderator. I emailed chess.com support and here is their reply:
"I have looked into this and yes what you are observing is TRUE, We have recently started on Auto-claim."
Jun 21, 2019
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#15
Optimissed escribió:
I believe it's automatic on this site after 5 (five) repetitions.
Ditto
Jun 22, 2019
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#16
digispin wrote:
Lagomorph wrote:
You have asked for clarification about these points and I have given you an answer. You obviously don't take my word for it but now that a moderator has confirmed things perhaps this thread can die.
Well Lagomorph, I'm going to toot my own horn loudly and proudly because you are dead wrong and so is the moderator. I emailed chess.com support and here is their reply:
"I have looked into this and yes what you are observing is TRUE, We have recently started on Auto-claim."
I'm asking a staff member to verify, but if it has been, it was a recent addition. I know auto-claim exists for five-fold repetition. It is possible the support person misunderstood your question and was talking about that.
Jun 22, 2019
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#17
I found out the claimed draws are now automatic in Live. There is supposed to have been an announcement somewhere.
I play with no increment so when a reputation occurs, asking for a draw can be deadly time-wise. Has Chess.com implemented an auto repetition draw? If not why?