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Why is this position -2 points in favor of black?

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j-r-p

This comes from a branch of a recent game of mine...


 

 

 

 

 

 

(White to move, and probably play Bd2)

 

 Why is this being rated -2 pts in favor of black? I mean, I can see that white has a bad bishop and is on the defensive currently. On the other hand, black's bishop can't really get into the game right now either. And black's pawn on e4 might be hard to defend, since it isn't defended by any pawn. So I'd probably rate it a slight advantage to black. According to my chess computer, it's more like 2 points in favor of black... how can you see that?

blueemu

White looks very passive. He doesn't look two pawns down, though.

Yaroslavl

What chess engine did you use? What chess notation analysis line did it give after White's Bd2?

ColonelKnight

Purely based on what I learned from the commentary of this lady I really liked at the WCCM - Susan Polgar - your pawns are on the same color squares as the color of your bishop.

66joeydonut

whites knight is unable to move w/ out losing pawn so 3 point peice is worth maybe 1.5 and as bleemu said ur bein passive

AndyClifton
Yaroslavl wrote:

What chess engine did you use? What chess notation analysis line did it give after White's Bd2?

This is the key.  Much more important than talking about a bunch of abstractions.

ColonelKnight

And rook to c2 might be better than bishop move?

clunney

White's opening has been a complete disaster. Now he's tied down to the defense of c3, c4 is a wonderful home for black's pieces, and now black is going to swing the rook down the a file to a2 to continue to attack white's position, and play f6 to create more weaknesses in white's pawn structure. While not hopeless, black will almost certainly win this position.

AndyClifton

That's still a lot of abstractions...I want some vars!

waffllemaster

It's probably counting piece activity and king safety to start with.

Also try to make a few moves on your own.  It's really hard for white.  If this were a tournament position I'd expect to win as black (unless my opponent was a GM or something, then I hope they offer me a draw Wink).

ColonelKnight

I'm just curious. Is rook c2 a bad move for white? I know it traps in his knight but really frees up his queen.

AndyClifton
waffllemaster wrote:

It's probably counting piece activity and king safety to start with.

 

Or it's crunching a mainline and appending the evaluation to the end of that...

Ryanyurocks10

After Bd2, all of white's pieces are severely obstructed, while the king is much weaker than the black king. Black can grab an open a-file at any time, and the queen is tied down in protection of the c-pawn and the prevention of the move e3 which forks the rook and the bishop. The knight is also fairly limited in movement, and as long as the knight doesn't move, the bishop cannot either. When the Bishop can't move, it is obstructing the rook. So, horrible position=-2, I guess.

clunney

After Bd2 Ra8 Ng2 Qd3! Ne3 f6 Nxd5 cxd5 Qf1 Qxf1 Kxf1, we reach a basically hopeless endgame for white, where his bishop and rook are both extremely passive, and black's plan is very simple: play h5 and use his pieces to prevent kingside pawn breaks, and march his king down to c3 and win the c pawn. Black should reel in the full point.

ColonelKnight

Can OP please post the pgn here? Just curious how you got into this squeeze.

AndyClifton

Well, I was hoping more for the computer's analysis.  And number your moves! (shouldn't a 9000 player know that by now?) Smile

clunney

My computer finds an even simpler win for black in that endgame I posted, play for an e5 break to liquidate the center and leave black with connected passed pawns, and leave white with whimpy pawns on both wings. Quick and easy win!

ColonelKnight

What is a 9000 player??

AndyClifton

Read his profile (then ask him).

waffllemaster

Yeah I was thinking Rc2 then Ra8 or f6.

It's not that white doesn't have any moves at all... it's that there's nothing active for him to do.  As long as black's careful and just keep improving pieces / waiting, opportunities should present themselves.  Maybe you win the c pawn and the queenside collapses.  With so much space around the king maybe you get an attack.  Or maybe you just trade into a better endgame (white's bishop and pawns are bad).

AndyClifton wrote:
waffllemaster wrote:

It's probably counting piece activity and king safety to start with.

 

Or it's crunching a mainline and appending the evaluation to the end of that...

I was trying to say it's even more arbitrary than a number but it sorta came out opposite heh.