Criticism of Chess.com University Prodigy Program

For adult it is ok. sometime to hope its nice.

for the children, then, could you imagine if all that time they spend with the chess they spend extra on the work? 

@Trash_Aesthetic,

Kids need fun my friend. If they love chess and have fun playing and learning it, they should be doing it. It's great mental exercise and it's fun.

I'm an educational entrepreneur and am also working to improve education at the school and college level. But, overloading a child is not the way to make him or her excel. Balance is important.

Some of the best and brightest were dedicated chess players during their childhood: Bill Gates, George Soros, Carl Icahn, Piette Omidyar, Patrick Wolff (in hedge funds), Peter Thiel, and many more.

Actually, it's not just silly. It is a big problem these days when parents become competitive and overwork their children. Some kids are forced into way too many extracurricular activities they don't like, are overworked, even sleep-deprived, and the whole time the parents believe they are doing what is best for their children. I've often rejected chess students because of this. If parents love chess, great. But if their children don't love it, they should not be enrolled in my programs. Back when I was active in one-on-one coaching, the first question I asked to new youth students was how much they loved chess. Based on their response, I decided whether or not to accept them as students. Sometimes, I could teach them a few lessons and increase their enthusiasm about the game. But other times, they clearly did not like chess, didn't want to play or learn, and so in those cases, I had to let go of the students.

Hi Kairav,

Thanks for your thorough response. I'd bother to take the time to respond to most of it, however I'll let the readers decide which argument is better formed.

That being said, I do wish to address the ad hominem attack being made, which clearly is irrelevant. First and foremost, if you'd like to challenge me academically, you are all the welcome. However, I regret to inform you that most of your claims are without support. First, as I currently am working towards 3 degrees (bachelors of science in microbiology, genetics, and biochemistry), I no longer have time for chess coaching. You can ask psy88, whom I let go far before I made this post. Secondly, in terms of making money, I have no need for that as I'm actually on a full academic scholarship to a top 20 university.

I'll just let it sit that you know your argument is flawed in numerous ways and I'll let you figure out how. It shouldn't take such a wise "leader" to see that.

All the best,

Pawnpusher3

I just thought I would throw my two cents in here.

I have been a prodigy program member since Feburary. As Samantha mentioned, the value associated with this program FAR exceeds the 150 a month. I can see that number seeming high, but then think of all the weird food habits you may have developed. Get coffee every morning before work? ($2-4 * 5days a week * ~4weeks a month = ~40-80 bucks) Oh look, you are already almost half way there. I am sure everyone has SOMETHING similar to that example which shows they are spending a non-negative amount of money on either a habit/hobby. Honestly, if 150 seems like a lot of money spend on a hobby, you likely aren't dedicated enough to improve your game.

Okay, enough with the monetary refutation some of you have claimed. Let's talk a little about the course work. (http://www.chess.com/article/view/study-plan-directory) Read that, in essence you will now have an understanding of the type of things that we learn in the program. But have you ever read a book where you really didn't understand a certain thought process or move order and really wish you had someone really skilled to ask. Yup, we get that in our live lessons. Ever wanted to play in a simul against FM/NM/IM/GM, yup we do one of those once a month. Ever want your game reviewed/commentated by FM/NM/IM/GM, yup we get a couple of those a month. ALSO anyone that thinks Kairav is somehow unworthy of teaching without a Masters title should take a good hard look at how schools in general work. You think your kids High school teacher has a Masters in the field they are teaching, unlikely. If they have a masters in anything its in some obscure teaching degree and anyone with a masters in that field can show you how little they know. (source: I have a masters in Mathematics and know A LOT of people who went into education.) But that doesn't make them bad teachers. A teacher just has to know more than the students. And trust me, Kairav has a well of knowledge and experience.

My personal opinion is that this program is fantastic for people who actually want to improve at the game. If you think that JUST watching the videos provided and doing nothing else is going to make you a better player, then you clearly don't understand what learning is. You need to be studying books, going over masters games, and most importantly playing, A LOT. I heard a stat the other day that Nakamura has played over 3 million games in his lifetime. Do the math and tell me, on average, how many games that is.

If anyone has any questions for me regarding my experiences with the program, feel free to message me (I likely won't pay too much more attention to this forum post since it seems like its degrading into poo flinging). Also if you have a membership to the site, just look at my rating stats from around Jan/Feb to now and tell me the program isn't helping me get better.

 Unholycyclone

"Honestly, if 150 seems like a lot of money spend on a hobby, you likely aren't dedicated enough to improve your game."

I am glad that you love the program and have the financial resources to participate. However your above statement is arrogant and offensive. 

I think you misunderstand. I didn't say if you can't afford to pay 150 a month then you aren't dedicated. I just said if you think spending that much on a hobby seems like a lot, then you probably aren't as dedicated to it as you think.

If I was mistaken and you understood me perfectly, then I am sorry my bluntness and truthfulness comes off as offensive.

This is exactly how I interpreted your quote.

I believe the person who misunderstood was Plabuk.

What you are saying is true though. I have seen chicks who had hobby's of buying shoes or purses which would make 150 a month look like spare change to them lol.

You see them jokers with 30 purses in there closet each one costing between 200-500 bucks. Its like they can only use 1 purse at a time lol what they need 30 for lol. 30 purses and no money to put in any one of those purses because they done spent it all lol.

However, It not only women that do that.

I know some friends of mine who like buying old cars and fixing them up. Few hundred bucks buying some of those old cars. If you was to go in his yard and it looks like a junk yard bunch of random cars all over the place.

Challenge Accepted!

Today, I am going to sign up to a college and tell them I want to work towards 10 bachelor degrees.

Since, you value a person who pursues Bachelors so academically outstanding that would mean I would win this argument. For, I am so academically better pursuing 10 against your mere pursuit of 3.

I can lie as well and say I got full academic scholarship to a top 3 university. There is no way you would know since this after all is online.

Moron!

X_PLAYER_J_X won by checkmate.

You might try the SLP program. It's cheaper than Prodigy and I hear that one of the instructors is a French Defense devotee.

But, if you really want to be so narrow in your studies, you should hire an individual coach and be perfectly clear: "I'm not looking to improve, certainly not to the level of master, I just want to learn to play against the French Defence."

In my long experience in education, I've seen many people reject some area of general knowledge because it did not seem relevant to a specific goal. Almost none of those people ever worked ten full years in the limited field they initially thought they were preparing for.

A broad training program that covers all aspect of chess is precisely what every aspiring student can benefit from. If that program also offers individual instruction that hones in on individual strengths and weaknesses, then it should be worthwhile. 

Funny enough I was thinking the same thing Ziryab.

I'm glad you think you can make a mockery of me. I don't lie- never have and never will. If you don't believe me, no worries, that is your perogative. Once again, if Kairav needs any actual verification of my status, I'd be happy to provide it, but otherwise I'm not going to take the time to provide my identity on this mockery of a forum.

I wish there were scholarships available. 

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-organizers/baraboo-hs-chess-club  Click on this link to find out the details on supporting a Chess Club for FREE!!! Your help is appreciated!!!

You are the one who started this mockery forum.

If you did not wish to be mocked than why did you create this forum to mock a program you have never attended.

Frankly, I do not believe you one bit.

No one cares about your status. You are insulting a program which has helped people with this forum and you are now offended that they have come back to mock your mockery?

Well I am sorry.

Maybe you should not poke a tiger than say Oh My Gosh I can't believe the tiger came back around and scatched me.

I do not even believe you are enrolled in college at this point.

@X_PLAYER_J_X  You really don't need to put others down, even if they don't do the right thing. Now you're being just as bad aas Pawnpusher3, or maybe even worse. 

Well I am offended. You should be offended too.

It is about stating the facts when there is injustice.

Well, you're calling Pawnpusher a "twit" and saying "This level of stupidity is beyond measure." That's just wrong, man.

Yeah I will edit.

I just get emotional sometimes.

Well I do not consider them truly wrong.

I would call Hilter a Twit and say his level of stupidity is beyond measure as well.

What he is doing is wrong. I sometimes speak my mind. Even though I can be very direct.

However, I did edit my post. Since I can still get my point across even with out the insults. However, That is what I was thinking when I posted to him.

I do not like people who try to degrade something when it is not hurting anyone.

No one is forcing him to join that program. Some people have found it very wonderful.

He is trying to besmirch something which is not causing anyone any trouble.

If they do not like the program they do not have to attend it.

What he is doing is trying to defame a program which could damage its future success.

In some places that is consider illegal.

I've also been a member of the program since February, and here are my 2 cents. First of all, I just want to clarify that the key question here is not whether the prodigy program is better than individual coaching, but whether or not it is worth $150/month. Obviously taking one-on-one lessons with a good coach is going to help you improve much faster than taking group lessons in the prodigy program - this is true of all disciplines, not just chess. As has been pointed out though, this would be much more expensive and suits those students who are very serious about quick improvement and/or those who have sufficient financial resources. For others trying to improve their game there are the various levels of premium membership on chess.com, and then of course there's all the free stuff that this site offers for those who just want to play the game and nothing else. In other words there are a variety of options on the desired-improvement-speed spectrum for everyone (and in theory the price of each of these options is more or less proportional to the improvement speed), so any claims that "private coaching is better" or "the prodigy program is bad" miss the point, because everybody has different goals in chess. The OP is correct that sometimes topics covered in the prodigy program are familiar to some students and as a result they won't get much out of that particular lecture, but once again, you get what you pay for. Those who do not want to waste any time on topics they know already should get a private coach instead. 

Going back to whether or not the program is worth it...

The prodigy program is towards the upper end of the improvement-speed-spectrum, and for me personally it is worth the $150. In addition to the live lessons, game analysis etc mentioned by others in this thread, the main benefit I find from the program is the discipline. In the past, even though I knew I needed to improve my tactics, openings, endings, etc, it was very difficult to figure out exactly what I needed to do on a day to day basis to get better at those things. In the weekly study guides that we get as part of the program, the thinking is done for me. The guides say stuff like "On Monday Aug 17 do 15-30min of tactics trainer, then read pages 250-275 of this book, then watch this particular video". Then on Tuesday do bla bla bla. To have a practical day-by-day to do list that makes sure that in the long run you are not missing anything is extremely helpful for someone disorganized such as myself ;) For some reason these study guides are only provided for three weeks out of the month though, but they are very valuable for those three weeks.

I don't know if students will really be able to get to master level in 5 years by following the prodigy program to the dot - this does seem like a pretty unbelievable claim but I am looking forward to seeing if it does work out for some people. I personally feel like I am learning and becoming a better chess player, although for many reasons that are not within the scope of this post, my chess.com ratings haven't increased too much so far :P If I ever decide that I really urgently need to get better then I might go for a private coach, and on the other hand if I decide that I'm OK just playing games online every once in a while I might drop out of the program. Neither of these situations would be an indictment of the program itself - it would just indicate that I've moved up/down the spectrum.

Finally, I just wanted to mention that just like in other disciplines, one's ability in that discipline is not necessarily correlated with one's ability to teach that discipline. Kairav might not be a master himself, but he is a great teacher and there is a lot a ~1500 player such as myself can learn from him. I know it adds to the wow-factor if this-or-that GM is teaching some of the courses, but to be honest the GM lessons in the prodigy program are those I learn the least from (I actually sometimes just skip GM Yermo's lessons because I get nothing out of them).

So, while the program certainly isn't perfect and definitely isn't meant for all chess players, I think many will find value in it, and I count myself as one of those people.